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The most brilliant part is that AOC didnt even understand the basic economics behind the tax incentive. She literally thought that the city had 3 billion dollars sitting around, and the money should have been invested into the district instead of Amazon.
What zero cost investment is going to net NYC/NYS $10B?
Let’s see, NYC/NYS spends $2B EVERY YEAR (using your figure) on the homeless and yet it only gets worse and also gets nothing back in return. While with the Amazon deal, NYC/NYS invests $1.5B ONE TIME and gets back $10B. Only fools like AOC and her defenders can think that deal stinks.
Again, what exactly has AOC done to bring jobs and improvements to her district? Oh yeah, she “speaks her mind.” That’s helped so many folks.
I can't argue with someone who lacks facts and integrity. So let's try this again...READ!!!
It's more than $1.5B when you add up everything that Amazon could collect from NYC - approx $2.6B in total (so round it to $3B and Gasolin as accurate) ALSO, Amazon has already collected billions from multiple counties throughout NYS...yes folks, the same Amazon with a market cap of $1.5 trillion was getting incentives from NYC and NYS.
https://www.goodjobsfirst.org/amazon-tracker
Here's where we will agree - AOC hasn't brought jobs and improvements to her district to the best of my knowledge. I have said repeatedly that I'm no AOC fan. All I said was...she was right on this issue.
You are embarrassing yourself with erroneous info. The Amazon HQ2 announcement happened in 2017, not “a decade ago”. Also, the Arlington HQ is still under construction. Meanwhile, jobs and economic activity there is already way ahead of that empty LIC plot and when the HQ2 does open, nothing built on that LIC (a developer wants to build luxury condos there) will come anywhere close to generating the economic revenue that the Arlington HQ2 will.
Amazon is a behemoth and growing. I would not be surprised that they would eventually surpass that 25K and need to expand again.
What erroneous info...you quoted me saying a decade ago when I referenced a CNBC article from 2021? So you can't read...you not thinking before you write. What else? Oh yeah, you still haven't opined on the people already living there who didn't want Amazon because they don't LIC to become another Seattle (though many may argue it's already there). So you don't care about the residents there. You just care about a trillion dollar company getting government handouts so it can speculatively add $10B? You're really riding hard for Amazon, man. You got a free Prime membership or something (we can be friends if you do) ;-)
Wrong Again. There was a lot of support for Amazon from the lower income sections of LIC especially the Queensbridge Houses and the business owners in the area understandably as it would have brought in a lot of workers, jobs and economic opportunities to the area. The only people that were against it were your usually NIMBY white woke gentrifier types that only moved into LIC recently and already had jobs so they saw no benefit for themselves.
Do you realize how ridiculous your argument is? Queensbridge Houses? So NYCHA residents are up in arms over Amazon? LOL. Ah, yes - "the NIMBY white woke types" who recently moved into those shining $5k/month rentals in LIC are afraid that Amazon will raise their rents to $5,200 a month and force them to live in the Queensbridge Houses.
Anyway, I'll attempt to leave more data here though I know you can't read it. But the URL says it all...straight from CB2 - i.e., THE LOCALS.
^ Ridiculous is that you are now trying to side with a few white gentrifier NIMBYs over a much larger number of poorer minorities that have lived there for generations who could use all the economic opportunities Amazon would have given them.
Yeah let’s leave some more data from the real locals, shall we?
Quote:
Locals like Richard Wissak, an owner of a yellow taxi company, 55 Stan, next to the proposed Amazon site, saw the company’s arrival as a way to bring improvements to the area.
“Instead it gets killed by the worst type of politics, and by a very vocal minority with no roots in this community,” said Mr. Wissak, who offered a common view that a large dose of the Amazon opposition came from elected officials and young, progressive activists with an anti-corporate agenda who rode the political tailwinds of the election of Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
“They weren’t from the neighborhood, and they got caught up in this movement, and on the wrong side of history,” Mr. Wissak said.
Quote:
A December poll showed a majority of New Yorkers welcomed Amazon, especially those in the Bronx, Queens and Staten Island. The move was also popular among blacks and Hispanics.
But fewer New Yorkers approved of the incentives officials offered Amazon. Though again, the proposed deal was more popular among Queens residents, blacks and Hispanics
Quote:
In a statement, a group of tenant leaders from four housing projects in the area blamed “grandstanding politicians” for putting “petty politics above true public service and they spread misinformation to whip up the small band of opponents.”
Quote:
“I can’t see why bringing a company here when we’re losing companies is a problem,” said Cory Watson-El, 41, a U.P.S. driver with a route in Long Island City.
Amazon’s arrival would have helped offset job losses caused by the departure of other large employers, he said, including FreshDirect, which moved from Long Island City to the Bronx last year.
Quote:
At the Queensbridge Houses, one resident, Joann Mezil, said she, too, was disappointed that the deal had fallen apart.
“You need jobs in this area, and they promised us jobs, and we were looking forward to them being here,” Ms. Mezil, 27, who works at a family shelter, said of Amazon. “And now?”
She said she didn’t understand the opposition to Amazon, “because as a community we did need that attention — I know a lot of people that were excited about it.”
Andrew Johnson, 62, who runs a book stand outside a subway station on the edge of the Queensbridge Houses, said he had supported Amazon’s plan and blamed the opposition for the deal’s collapse.
“Now I want these people who were opposed to Amazon coming here, to bring at least 500 jobs to Queensbridge,” Mr. Johnson said. “I doubt they will.”
On June 26, 2018, Ocasio-Cortez received 57.13% of the vote (15,897) to Crowley's 42.5% (11,761), defeating the 10-term incumbent by almost 15 percentage points.
^ Ridiculous is that you are now trying to side with a few white gentrifier NIMBYs over a much larger number of poorer minorities that have lived there for generations who could use all the economic opportunities Amazon would have given them.
Yeah let’s leave some more data from the real locals, shall we?
LOL. Thataboy.I like the effort. But...your cherry-picking of facts exposes your bias.
1) Richard Wissak, an owner of a yellow taxi company -- of course he wants the deal because he needs any edge he can get in the face of Uber and Lyft who are dismantling the yellow cabs. Biased but fine, I'll concede.
2) You quoted that: A December poll showed a majority of New Yorkers welcomed Amazon, especially those in the Bronx, Queens and Staten Island. The move was also popular among blacks and Hispanics.
But fewer New Yorkers approved of the incentives officials offered Amazon. Though again, the proposed deal was more popular among Queens residents, blacks and Hispanics
So if I recall, AOC's position was that she was against the deal because of the incentives. That's why I opposed the deal as well. You want to build a campus, trillion-dollar Amazon, pay for it yourself. So thank you, unwillingly, for showing that many New Yorkers actually agreed with AOC's point.
3) As for the blacks and hispanics in the area...well, the less said about their ignorance on this issue the better. That Joann Mezil, who griped about the lack of jobs, isn't the population target you referenced in an earlier post when you talked about $150k jobs. If you're going to pull a local in, make sure they represent your position. Hiring Joann and her ilk to sweep floors for $15/hr was NOT part of the Amazon's incentive agreement. To note: Amazon's corporate workforce is like 2% POC (blacks, hispanics, Asians, etc.).
4) In the article, the chart that refers to opposition shows that excluding Queens, ALL of the boroughs opposed the incentives more than they supported them. Why not mention this in your rebuttal?
5) Finally, why not quote Rich Nieto, a business owner living in LIC who intelligently sees both sides of the argument:
“Businesses were really happy about the potential new customer base, an affluent customer base that would be looking to move into the neighborhood and hopefully spend their money in the neighborhood,” he said. “As someone with three businesses in the neighborhood, an influx of thousands of new people would benefit a lot of us.”
He added: “At the same time, you can’t be ignorant of the fact that it was going to put a lot of pressure and stress on people who are already having a hard time paying their rent in the neighborhood, and who are concerned that they would be getting pushed out of the neighborhood.”
A word of advice: if you're going to cherry-pick your arguments, make sure your source doesn't offer any counter-arguments that dispel your own. This was too easy.
LOL. Thataboy.I like the effort. But...your cherry-picking of facts exposes your bias.
1) Richard Wissak, an owner of a yellow taxi company -- of course he wants the deal because he needs any edge he can get in the face of Uber and Lyft who are dismantling the yellow cabs. Biased but fine, I'll concede.
Yeah, because a business owner in the area that pays taxes and has a lot of vested interest in the success of that area somehow his opinion does not matter.
At least you’re conceding that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine
2) You quoted that: A December poll showed a majority of New Yorkers welcomed Amazon, especially those in the Bronx, Queens and Staten Island. The move was also popular among blacks and Hispanics.
But fewer New Yorkers approved of the incentives officials offered Amazon. Though again, the proposed deal was more popular among Queens residents, blacks and Hispanics
So if I recall, AOC's position was that she was against the deal because of the incentives. That's why I opposed the deal as well. You want to build a campus, trillion-dollar Amazon, pay for it yourself. So thank you, unwillingly, for showing that many New Yorkers actually agreed with AOC's point.
Actually you recalled incorrectly. Your airhead idol AOC expressed opposition because she like you, idiotically thought that NYC was giving $3B to Amazon when in fact, the $3B was just a tax break meaning it’s not something coming out of NYC’s coffers but a reduction in property taxes Amazon had to make.
The part missing from many misinformed people like yourself is that $3B was just a reduction of one half of the property taxes that Amazon had to pay. Amazon would have had to pay $3B for the half that was not reduced. Now without that deals, instead of NYC gaining $3B, it will get $0. Again, the moron AOC and her defenders can’t understand basic logic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine
3) As for the blacks and hispanics in the area...well, the less said about their ignorance on this issue the better. That Joann Mezil, who griped about the lack of jobs, isn't the population target you referenced in an earlier post when you talked about $150k jobs. If you're going to pull a local in, make sure they represent your position. Hiring Joann and her ilk to sweep floors for $15/hr was NOT part of the Amazon's incentive agreement. To note: Amazon's corporate workforce is like 2% POC (blacks, hispanics, Asians, etc.).
Wow, this is a really racist comment. Why would you assume that blacks and Hispanics in the area were anymore ignorant than the yuppie white gentrifiers?
And the racist demeaning comment about “her ilk to sweep floors?”
Amazon is one of the wokest corporations out there. The LIC location would have been a great opportunity for them to hire more POC not only because they actually agreed to hire from the immediate area but they had agreed to built a tech training center to specifically help the residents of the nearby housing projects.
Now, thanks to AOC and her fake claim of helping the needy, the needy in that area has 0 opportunities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine
4) In the article, the chart that refers to opposition shows that excluding Queens, ALL of the boroughs opposed the incentives more than they supported them. Why not mention this in your rebuttal?
Except I did include it. Don’t blame me if you can’t read.
Keep in mind that the people still supported the deal even though they disapproved of the incentives because unlike you and AOC, they are smart enough to know that the city still came out ahead and that you had to give a little to get the deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine
5) Finally, why not quote Rich Nieto, a business owner living in LIC who intelligently sees both sides of the argument:
“Businesses were really happy about the potential new customer base, an affluent customer base that would be looking to move into the neighborhood and hopefully spend their money in the neighborhood,” he said. “As someone with three businesses in the neighborhood, an influx of thousands of new people would benefit a lot of us.”
He added: “At the same time, you can’t be ignorant of the fact that it was going to put a lot of pressure and stress on people who are already having a hard time paying their rent in the neighborhood, and who are concerned that they would be getting pushed out of the neighborhood.”
A word of advice: if you're going to cherry-pick your arguments, make sure your source doesn't offer any counter-arguments that dispel your own. This was too easy.
Yeah, because your “data” was not cherry picked and showed both sides.
Fact is, everyone is going to include quotes, data, links that proves their point. I provide the link so that is at least more than you and your CNBC quote with no link.
Yeah, because a business owner in the area that pays taxes and has a lot of vested interest in the success of that area somehow his opinion does not matter.
At least you’re conceding that.
Actually you recalled incorrectly. Your airhead idol AOC expressed opposition because she like you, idiotically thought that NYC was giving $3B to Amazon when in fact, the $3B was just a tax break meaning it’s not something coming out of NYC’s coffers but a reduction in property taxes Amazon had to make.
Did you just write this? So at least we're working with the $3B # and not the $1.5B number you got wrong. Um...if Amazon isn't paying property taxes, that's called LOST REVENUE. So technically, yes, nothing is coming out of the coffers...but nothing is going in either.
The part missing from many misinformed people like yourself is that $3B was just a reduction of one half of the property taxes that Amazon had to pay. Amazon would have had to pay $3B for the half that was not reduced. Now without that deals, instead of NYC gaining $3B, it will get $0. Again, the moron AOC and her defenders can’t understand basic logic.
Now you're just tripping over your words. What the heck are you talking about here? Amazon has to pay $3B for the half not reduced? NO! The $3B was the incentive TO AMAZON...the savings yield for investing in LIC. And you keep talking about NYC gaining zero AFTER I sent you several articles that stated Amazon is leasing more office space and hiring more people. So how is NYC losing when Amazon is actively investing in NYC? Fast answer - NYC is not losing. It's gaining jobs without the ridiculous incentives which your referenced article clearly stated that most people were against.
Wow, this is a really racist comment. Why would you assume that blacks and Hispanics in the area were anymore ignorant than the yuppie white gentrifiers?
And the racist demeaning comment about “her ilk to sweep floors?”
Do you really want me to do a search on your posts and recall the "racists" things you said. I'm Natchez...I don't have the power or wealth to exercise racism (textbook definition of the word, btw). I just spoke in a language you're comfortable with.
Amazon is one of the wokest corporations out there. The LIC location would have been a great opportunity for them to hire more POC not only because they actually agreed to hire from the immediate area but they had agreed to built a tech training center to specifically help the residents of the nearby housing projects.
Wokest corporation? LOL. The same company that destroys any movements to unionize is woke? The company that has people peeing in bottles is woke? Silly statement.
And to use your line, why would you assume that blacks and hispanics in the area need a tech training center to help them? Are they not already qualified?
Now, thanks to AOC and her fake claim of helping the needy, the needy in that area has 0 opportunities.
You're such a knowitall, I think the 14th is up for election this midterm. Why don't you relocate to the 14th, knock AOC out of office, and bring up opportunities for the needy that you so care about? You don't need to answer that...we already know your answer.
Did you just write this? So at least we're working with the $3B # and not the $1.5B number you got wrong. Um...if Amazon isn't paying property taxes, that's called LOST REVENUE. So technically, yes, nothing is coming out of the coffers...but nothing is going in either.
Different sources cite varying numbers. Unless you actually read the whole legal documents, we have to rely on the media.
Again you and your very poor logic. Maybe I can simplify this for you:
The Amazon deal: total property taxes = $6B. Amazon gets 1/2 of $6B off their property tax bill, while NYC receives 1/2 of that $6B in property taxes. NYC gains $3B
No Amazon deal = NYC gains $0.
That is the true lost revenue. Only you can somehow argue against gaining $3B versus gaining $0.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine
Now you're just tripping over your words. What the heck are you talking about here? Amazon has to pay $3B for the half not reduced? NO! The $3B was the incentive TO AMAZON...the savings yield for investing in LIC. And you keep talking about NYC gaining zero AFTER I sent you several articles that stated Amazon is leasing more office space and hiring more people. So how is NYC losing when Amazon is actively investing in NYC? Fast answer - NYC is not losing. It's gaining jobs without the ridiculous incentives which your referenced article clearly stated that most people were against.
What Amazon is hiring in Manhattan pales in comparison to what they would have hired in LIC. You are talking about several thousand back office positions compared to 25K corporate headquarter jobs.
Furthermore, Manhattan doesn’t need the extra jobs. Queens particularly the lower income nearby areas need it much more. NYC since Bloomberg has tried to decentralize the city’s commercial areas from Manhattan to the other boroughs. This would have helped in that effort tremendously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine
Do you really want me to do a search on your posts and recall the "racists" things you said. I'm Natchez...I don't have the power or wealth to exercise racism (textbook definition of the word, btw). I just spoke in a language you're comfortable with.
Love it with the deflection. This is not about me. This is about your plainly obvious demeaning racist comments. The sad part is that you are here constantly masquerading as some racial justice warrior when in fact you hold such deep prejudice. Good to know for next time, you pretend to be for the disenfranchised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine
Wokest corporation? LOL. The same company that destroys any movements to unionize is woke? The company that has people peeing in bottles is woke? Silly statement.
And to use your line, why would you assume that blacks and hispanics in the area need a tech training center to help them? Are they not already qualified?
Woke liberals I don’t need to tell you are hypocrites. For their business, Amazon and Bezos may be against unionizing because it affects their profit margins but it is hardly a secret that Bezos is very liberal.
I did not assume blacks and Hispanics needed a training center. This was all talked about in the media at the time because many residents voiced concern that they were not trained in tech. As a response to the community, Amazon made the proposal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine
You're such a knowitall, I think the 14th is up for election this midterm. Why don't you relocate to the 14th, knock AOC out of office, and bring up opportunities for the needy that you so care about? You don't need to answer that...we already know your answer.
I don’t claim to know it all but I do know a garbage argument when I see it. Garbage is arguing that losing out on 25K extremely well paying jobs, while revitalizing a derelict abandoned area is somehow a bad thing.
She was worried that Queens Bridge folk might actually get better jobs and climb the ladder. Climbing the ladder is counter productive to Democratic party members. You have to remain poor or else you are of no use.
Also, non blacks moving into the projects is also bad news, as if anyone actually would.
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