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Landlords generally don't maintain buildings that have a substantial number of stabilized or rent control tenants. At least that has been my experience. They usually allow the building to deteriorate to a large degree. My building for example probably hasn't seen any major renovations in the past 50 years and the paint is chipping off in the hallway, and the radiators are pretty crazy in the winter.
yeah trust me you are not living in the best conditions if you're a tenant paying these kinds of rents. so the LL is letting the bldg go to crap, the city gives them a slap on the wrist, and we have howard cosell and his famous remarks all over again. viva la resistance.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
I was reading in the AM NYC paper New York City News including Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx and Staten Island. Where you'll find information on Ground Zero, Central Park, Transit Alerts, Real Estate, the mafia -- amNY.com (http://www.amny.com/local - broken link) an article in yesterday's paper called " Immigrants Take on Landlords" that the median rents in NYC are as follows: (median rents are the exact numeric middle number, exactly half are higher and exactly half are lower. This is not the average.)
NYC $860
Bushwick $730
Chinatown $716
East Harlem $529
So this clearly asks the question: What is all the hype of lack of affordable housing in NYC? If half of the rents in NYC are BELOW $860....how are we lacking affordable housing? This clearly goes against all of the hype that people can no longer afford to live in this city anymore....how can this be possible when half the apts for rent in NYC rent for LESS than $860!!! And looking at the other sample neighborhoods....East Harlem's median is $529!!!! In order to see the article, you must go the website, choose "Old PDFs" then May 12, and then page 3.
Anyone else wondering what everyone is complaining about?
The stats you mention are first of all, ONLY FOR THOSE SPECIFIC BLUE COLLAR at the best and UNDERCLASS at the worst NEIGHBORHOODS (except the one that says "NYC" for which there is no neighborhood cited so I don't know if it means Manhattan, all of the boroughs, or what). You also conveniently left out the stats for the high poverty rates cited.
So using those stats to pretend rental housing is severely underpriced in all the neighborhoods of the five boroughs is not quite realistic (to say it in a nice way).
Considering the housing projects in those neighborhoods and the average wages of the people who live there (in housing projects or not) those particular median rents make sense to me, although as many pointed out, the going rent will probably be higher when someone is looking for a vacant apartment RIGHT NOW in those areas.
The article also stated that NYC is losing affordable housing at a rate of 60,000 units per year, so perhaps your wish will come true and there will be only wealthy people here. Who knows, maybe one day you can be landlord of the castle in "Mott Haven" to multi-millionaires!
First of all, the affordable housing you cite is only possible because rent control started in 1955. Then rent stabilization came along. Now these rent protections are being phased out. The people who live in those units ARE SCARED TO DEATH TO MOVE OUT because they know anything they get at market rates will be much higher.
The rental housing stock in NYC has also been hit by many buildings that used to be rental turning co-op, of which many insist on owner-occupied apartments. There are brand new condo buildings being built where the owners can rent out the apartments but with the high 6 and low 7 figure prices, I don't think those are going to provide anything in the way of affordability.
My husband's grandmother lives in a 2 br on a nice block in Greenpoint Brooklyn. Her rent is $97 a month (Sr. Citizen rent control). If she were to move, her adult son who lives with her would inherit the apartment. So there's a very, very affordable apartment that nobody is going to get anytime soon. Besides the fact that the sweetheart deal grandma has WILL NOT BE REPLICATED FOR A SUBSEQUENT TENANT. No way. No how.
My friend lives in a large studio in Forest Hills, Queens. She's been there 20 years. It is rent stabilized and she feels stuck there because she knows if she goes anywhere else she will pay a lot more. GO TELL HER HOW AFFORDABLE APARTMENTS ARE IN NEW YORK.
A former boss of mine has a much-coveted apt. in the West Village. He has had it for years and years. He hasn't lived there in a long time and rents it to friends of his. Why doesn't he give it up? Because it is too much of a bargain to let go, even though there is a 99.9% chance he will NEVER live there again, so he really does not need it.
As for landlords who have buildings with rent controlled and rent stabilized apartments in them: I don't feel sorry for them! When they bought these buildings (minus of course if there are some old crones who are still around who owned them before rent control first started in 1955), they WERE FULLY INFORMED as to what they were getting into and knew what their bottom line would be. These are business people, not fools who were ripped off. They know time is on their side in achieving attrition of rent controlled and rent stabilized tenants. They have other ways to make money anyway off these tenants. A former coworker of mine used to complain all the time that the building was charging all the tenants for capital improvements, fuel oil hikes, etc. As long as her bldg. management didn't call it "rent" they were able to get it (legally) by getting approval from the authorities.
Another thing: the reason some of the apartments "are falling apart" is because the tenant does not want the renovations, not because the landlord won't do them. My friend in Forest Hills has what probably is the original kitchen. It is hideous. But she does not want to pay her own money to improve the landlord's property and if she asks the landlord to do it he will be entitled to a rent increase, so she lives with the crappy kitchen.
To sum it up, your blanket statement that NY is so affordable conveniently turns a blind eye to the great divide of the HAVES in this city (already HAVE very low rent in the projects, Section 8, rent control or rent stabilization) who are not leaving anytime soon and once they do leave, their situations will not be reproduced for the next tenant to the HAVE NOTS in this city (people with a middle class or below income who are searching for affordable rent in the current unprotected market). You can't say anything meaningful or correct about the availability of "affordable housing" in NYC without taking these facts into account.
This is NYC, whose rental market has been uniquely shaped for better or worse through legislation, not Charlotte, NC, or Phoenix, AZ. Now if you were to cite the median rent in a city like the 2 aforementioned, you would find that both new renters and old renters have the SAME CHANCE AT A COMPARABLE MEDIAN RENTAL PRICE. In NYC, no way is that true. The premise is completely faulty.
Some people are of the opinion that if rent control and stabilization were abolished totally that would make the market rents drop because of more housing being on the market. Somehow I don't think so. I think all rents would skyrocket. What do you think?
Last edited by I_Love_LI_but; 05-14-2008 at 05:25 PM..
^^^ what a hell of a post....simply beautiful....just as the RE market goes up and down, the landlords have to deal with it as well as the tenants. after all nobody told them to be landlords anyway. boo hoo if he gotta pay more to heat the building. if they're having trouble, then flip the building into a condo and have everbody pay maintenance fee/common charges and call it a day.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
It didn't say they were excluded. And after all they are a big part of the rental housing market in those neighborhoods and other places so it would be incorrect to exclude them.
^^^ what a hell of a post....simply beautiful....just as the RE market goes up and down, the landlords have to deal with it as well as the tenants. after all nobody told them to be landlords anyway. boo hoo if he gotta pay more to heat the building. if they're having trouble, then flip the building into a condo and have everbody pay maintenance fee/common charges and call it a day.
They can make the rent control/rent stabilized people pay surcharges for fuel and for capital improvements even though it is not a co-op or a condo! These landlords are not poor innocent lambs being brought to the slaughter as the OP would like to believe.
I was reading in the AM NYC paper New York City News including Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx and Staten Island. Where you'll find information on Ground Zero, Central Park, Transit Alerts, Real Estate, the mafia -- amNY.com (http://www.amny.com/local - broken link) an article in yesterday's paper called " Immigrants Take on Landlords" that the median rents in NYC are as follows: (median rents are the exact numeric middle number, exactly half are higher and exactly half are lower. This is not the average.)
NYC $860
Bushwick $730
Chinatown $716
East Harlem $529
So this clearly asks the question: What is all the hype of lack of affordable housing in NYC? If half of the rents in NYC are BELOW $860....how are we lacking affordable housing? This clearly goes against all of the hype that people can no longer afford to live in this city anymore....how can this be possible when half the apts for rent in NYC rent for LESS than $860!!! And looking at the other sample neighborhoods....East Harlem's median is $529!!!! In order to see the article, you must go the website, choose "Old PDFs" then May 12, and then page 3.
Anyone else wondering what everyone is complaining about?
This thread is a perfect example of how statistics can be manipulated to reflect whatever you are trying to portay.
Another thing: the reason some of the apartments "are falling apart" is because the tenant does not want the renovations, not because the landlord won't do them. My friend in Forest Hills has what probably is the original kitchen. It is hideous. But she does not want to pay her own money to improve the landlord's property and if she asks the landlord to do it he will be entitled to a rent increase, so she lives with the crappy kitchen.
Interesting post, but I would disagree with this part. In my building most of the apartments are in pretty good shape. It is the hallways/stairways that look like cr@p.
I found that to be one hell of a bad post in fact. So grandma rents and apt for $97 a month...but screw the LL..too bad for him! And her friend has a bargain apt in West illage..AND HE DOES NOT LIVE THERE and illegally rents it out I presume? Another winner! Furthermore, the tenants prefer to leave the apts in the 1955 state because "they don't want to improve the LL's property"...but when rent goes up...all of a sudden it is "my home" and "I have lived here for 40 years how can they do this to me in my home." Meanwhile..they are paying $97 bucks a month..rent goes up 3% (aka 3 bucks)..and they are on the cover of every paper " LL's seek to raise rents on Seniors" and every one casts their stones. In addition, they are ONLY paying $97 bucks, and STILL won't do anything to their apt...you would think with virtually free rent they would at least make the place habitable, upgrades, new appliances...they have been living free after all. But nope...why should they? Screw the LL....right? It's not mine after all right?
Let's face it...whether you want to admit it or not..if YOU were the LL and you have $97 rents in NYC...would you be saying "Oh well, that's just how it goes." Nope...you would realize that it is grossly unfair...you are not looking to get rich..but paying a fair share is..well..FAIR. The reality is that median rents in the city are about $850 bucks..whether you want to agree with that or not, or somehow believe that's not really true or not really accurate is your problem.
The assault on affordable housing is ludicrous...as people TODAY have a median rent of $860..and in some cases $529 like Spanish harlem. Yes if you want to live in Chelsea...you are gonna pay more..but across the city...housing IS reasonable and downright cheap. Don't think these super cheap apts are available..think again..as the poster said "One granny dies...her kid is getting it." So yet another person/generation will happily rape the LL..and no doubt not put a dime into the apt "cuz it's not his" and when rent goes up another $3 bucks..he will be the first proclaiming "This is my home...this is unfair and the LL is getting rich off of us."
Let's be real people...when the shoe is on the other foot..you would be having a different opinion. Rent stabilization was a good thing...but how can you possibly assert that $529 median rents in East Harlem, or $850 median rents in NYC is healthy, normal, good for the city, or for anyone besides those taking advantage of the system?
I found that to be one hell of a bad post in fact. So grandma rents and apt for $97 a month...but screw the LL..too bad for him! And her friend has a bargain apt in West illage..AND HE DOES NOT LIVE THERE and illegally rents it out I presume? Another winner! Furthermore, the tenants prefer to leave the apts in the 1955 state because "they don't want to improve the LL's property"...but when rent goes up...all of a sudden it is "my home" and "I have lived here for 40 years how can they do this to me in my home." Meanwhile..they are paying $97 bucks a month..rent goes up 3% (aka 3 bucks)..and they are on the cover of every paper " LL's seek to raise rents on Seniors" and every one casts their stones. In addition, they are ONLY paying $97 bucks, and STILL won't do anything to their apt...you would think with virtually free rent they would at least make the place habitable, upgrades, new appliances...they have been living free after all. But nope...why should they? Screw the LL....right? It's not mine after all right?
Let's face it...whether you want to admit it or not..if YOU were the LL and you have $97 rents in NYC...would you be saying "Oh well, that's just how it goes." Nope...you would realize that it is grossly unfair...you are not looking to get rich..but paying a fair share is..well..FAIR. The reality is that median rents in the city are about $850 bucks..whether you want to agree with that or not, or somehow believe that's not really true or not really accurate is your problem.
The assault on affordable housing is ludicrous...as people TODAY have a median rent of $860..and in some cases $529 like Spanish harlem. Yes if you want to live in Chelsea...you are gonna pay more..but across the city...housing IS reasonable and downright cheap. Don't think these super cheap apts are available..think again..as the poster said "One granny dies...her kid is getting it." So yet another person/generation will happily rape the LL..and no doubt not put a dime into the apt "cuz it's not his" and when rent goes up another $3 bucks..he will be the first proclaiming "This is my home...this is unfair and the LL is getting rich off of us."
Let's be real people...when the shoe is on the other foot..you would be having a different opinion. Rent stabilization was a good thing...but how can you possibly assert that $529 median rents in East Harlem, or $850 median rents in NYC is healthy, normal, good for the city, or for anyone besides those taking advantage of the system?
but the system is there for a reason is it not? why should the tenants be faulted for rent stabilization laws that were not implemented by them? if i have a rent-stabilized apartment all i owe the LL is to follow my lease and not break any provisions on it. screw him if my rent is only 800 a month thats not my problem if i'm abiding by my lease.
the LL can cut costs on their buildings by putting in green roofs, solar panels, switching from oil to gas, using fluoresecent lighting....there's measures that can be taken. even NYCHA is installing fluorescent light fixtures in every apartment this year starting with queensbridge. i dont wanna hear it. like these LLs dont have a pot to **** in.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
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Haves vs. Have Nots Figure in the Market
