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and then it occured to me that these films are not so much movies as they are toy marketing campaigns.
Bingo.
But really, it's bigger than toys. It's "brand equity." G.I. Joes and the Transformers flicks are basically 2-hour commercials for toys, T-shirts, bed sheets, pajamas, books, video games, etc.
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Originally Posted by Linson
i truly believe that most of these movies are awful, and that they will continue to make them because they seem to have a built in audience which demands sequel after ill concieved sequel.
Whether a movie is awful or not has absolutely nothing to do with the genre or (as much as I hate to admit it) the aims of the financiers. It's all about the talent involved making the movie.
There have been some horrid movies based on comic books, and there have been some great ones. Because they were based on comics had little to do with it.
Nor does the drive for a sequel. Again, it's all about the talent --- mostly the director. Godfather 2 would have never happened had the first film not been a monster hit and the studio wanted more money. It's still a classic film.
As for fandom ... comics are hardly alone in that. There are sports fans who can tell you who played short stop for the Yankees in 1964 and what his batting average was. Others follow the NFL draft picks like Republicans follow the stock market.
And Literary afficionados are just as guilty. There are folks out there who will spend hours telling you the intimate details of Emily Dickinson's life or analyzing the themes of Proust.
To each his own. Just don't sit too comfortably on the high horse. One man's prized steed is another's jackass.
ive been on message boards in the "movies" section and when the topic is a comic book movie, especially a sequel, i hear more talk about what little known character is or isnt going to get screen time than plot. "oh, they better have Archangel in the next X men Movie!" "i hope Cobra Commander wears his mask!" i'm gonna be pissed if they dont have...Doctor...Destructo..." are you seriously gonna sit there and tell me that you dont know what im talking about?
I don't doubt it in the least. But if you went to a sports message board, or a music message board, or a Literature message board, or a message board for cat lovers, you'd find comments that seemed just as inane and absurd to the outsider. It's the nature of fandom, irrespective of genre.
But if you hang around the nerds much, you'll find they are way more unforgiving that the non-nerds when it comes to a bad comic book movie. Mention the name "Joel Schumacher" in a comic book store and see what happens.
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Originally Posted by Linson
why would you be particularly excited about any of these movies?
Comic book heroes are the mythic icons of today. They fulfill the same role for people that Odysseus, Beowulf, Aeneas, Gilgamesh, King Arthur, etc. did for people of ages past. Just because one hack comes along and makes an awful movie about a character doesn't mean the potential of the character is inherently flawed.
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Originally Posted by Linson
i saw Iron Man and thought it didnt make much sense
Lots of non-nerd movie critics disagree with you. Iron Man and The Dark Knight were two monster hits last year because they resonated with audiences and critics alike.
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Originally Posted by Linson
the Superman movie from a couple years ago was one of the worst movies i ever saw.
Superman Returns? Yeah, it was pretty awful. No doubt. I don't know that I've ever managed to stay awake through the whole thing. But the worst movie your ever saw? You need to see more movies. Go rent Beaches sometime.
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Originally Posted by Linson
Star Trek had a fairly good movie this year, but dont you the the sequel will be just a rushed money grab?
Rushed? No. Transformers 2 was rushed. The Matrix sequels were rushed. JAWS 2 rushed. Etc., etc., etc. If the studio were rushing a Star Trek sequel, they'd be filming now, and they aren't.
A money grab? All movies are. Even Woody Allen expects a paycheck.
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Originally Posted by Linson
if youre excited about these movies, then maybe you are a nerd.
Main Entry: snob
Pronunciation: \ˈsnäb\
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1781
1 British : cobbler
2 : one who blatantly imitates, fawningly admires, or vulgarly seeks association with those regarded as social superiors
3 a : one who tends to rebuff, avoid, or ignore those regarded as inferior b : one who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste
1. while your points are for the most part valid - they do ignore a couple of glaring facts - like the fact that most comic-book based movies are made with ZERO artistic intention. so you cant compare them to Unforgiven just because Clint Eastwood got a paycheck.
2. the tendency among the message board comic movie fans is to "mark out" for everything as horrid as it sounds to anyone with any common sense, like myself for instance - im not opposed to the idea of comic-based movies as a matter of principle, but as someone who has seen what the genre has become, common sense tells me not to get all excited at the prospect of more and more of this dreck being pumped out.
3.
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snob: one who blatantly imitates, fawningly admires, or vulgarly seeks association with those regarded as social superiors
3 a : one who tends to rebuff, avoid, or ignore those regarded as inferior b : one who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste
i think that's a bit of a stretch to go there, though i'm not suprised to see JillBoBill agree with that assessment. i assumed JillBoBill was an adult with common sense, not some rabid comic-book nerd frothing at the mouth for more and more of this marketing masturbation (and with lines like, "I'm Jugernaught, *****!" that's exactly what it is.) i treated the guy like an adult and basically said to him, "hey, man, haven't you noticed most of these movies are total crap. the ones you're bringing up pretty much sound like more crap. maybe it's time to stop getting excited over these kinds of movies as they tend to be pretty horrible, and in the end, not even movies, but merchandizing campaigns."
i think that's a bit of a stretch to go there, though i'm not suprised to see JillBoBill agree with that assessment. i assumed JillBoBill was an adult with common sense, not some rabid comic-book nerd frothing at the mouth for more and more of this marketing masturbation (and with lines like, "I'm Jugernaught, *****!" that's exactly what it is.) i treated the guy like an adult and basically said to him, "hey, man, haven't you noticed most of these movies are total crap. the ones you're bringing up pretty much sound like more crap. maybe it's time to stop getting excited over these kinds of movies as they tend to be pretty horrible, and in the end, not even movies, but merchandizing campaigns."
The 'I'm Juggernaut, *****' comment was a tongue-in-cheek reference to an obscure online video. That movie came out sooo long ago, too. Do you keep some sort of 'Life is serious' journal and jot down things that make you mad? How do you remember that?
Maybe I like these movies not because I'm a horrible nerd, but because they're fun. Have you considered that? It's fine if you don't like them - I don't like Clint Eastwood movies. I think they're drab, awful stories about horrible, miserable lives. Lucky for us, there's always something else to see at the theater.
And I'm a girl. Because, you know, Jill is a girl's name.
the fact that most comic-book based movies are made with ZERO artistic intention.
That's not a fact at all. It's your opinion, and all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong.
Fact: When it comes to the studio heads, ALL movies are made for one reason and one reason only: to make money. I don't care if you're talking about the latest Woody Allen or the latest Benigni film. If those guys can't convince some studio exec the movie will turn a profit, it ain't going to get made.
So, are comic-book based movies greenlit in hopes of huge profits? Sure. But so is every movie.
Are comic-book based movies made with zero artistic intention? No.
I don't claim for a moment that there have not been some truly horrid comic-book based movies. But do you REALLY think the director set out saying, "I'm gonna make a crappy movie! It'll be so good for my career!"
No. Movies turn bad for a number of reasons. Talentless director. A good director mangled by studio interference. Lack of budget. Casting mistakes. Any number of reasons. But let's take a look at just some of the super-hero movies made over the past several years:
The Dark Knight. Smash hit with both critics and audiences. And a great movie.
Batman Begins. A good film. I wasn't as taken with it as lots of people, but it was by no means a bad movie. Definitely better than any of Burton or Schumacher's efforts from the '90s.
Iron Man. Smash hit with both critics and audiences. And a great movie. It's not deep, nor is it high art. But it is pure fun from start to finish.
X-Men. Good movie. Not great, but good. Hampered by last-minute script cuts necessitated by budget cuts.
X-Men 2. Very good movie. Not perfect, no, but very good.
X-Men 3. Crapola. But it's crapolaness had nothing to do with it being an X-Men film. It was bad because it was directed by Brett Ratner, a guy who should've stuck to directing hip hop videos.
Spider-Man. Good movie. Not great, no, but worth a matinee price and two hours of your time.
Spider-Man 2. Very good movie. Total improvement over its predecessor. Still a tad too silly in places for my taste, but still fun.
Spider-Man 3. And the fruit rots on the vine. What happened here? No idea. It seemed to me that the director had a passion for one movie, but his studio forced him to make another.
The Incredibles. Anyone who can sit through this movie and not break into a big, idiot grin needs to go take some happy pills. One of the greatest animated films ever made.
The Incredible Hulk. A good movie. Not great, no. The studio butchered the script and demanded edits that took out most of the character depth. But still fun.
HULK (the Ang Lee film). Too artsy for the comic-book fans and not comic-book for the art fans. Still a good film.
Then you get the truly horrid stuff like Daredevil, Elekra, and the Fantastic Four.
But look at that batting average. Many more good to great films than bad.
2. the tendency among the message board comic movie fans is to "mark out" for everything as horrid as it sounds to anyone with any common sense, like myself for instance
I'm not sure what you're trying to say there. Clarify, please?
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Originally Posted by Linson
im not opposed to the idea of comic-based movies as a matter of principle, but as someone who has seen what the genre has become, common sense tells me not to get all excited at the prospect of more and more of this dreck being pumped out.
See list above. There's some dreck out there to be sure. But the good stuff -- at least over the past 5-10 years -- has outnumbered the bad.
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Originally Posted by Linson
i treated the guy like an adult
No, you didn't. You called her a nerd. And whether you intended to or not, you came across as a snob. You don't like comic-book movies? That's fine. I can't stand musicals. But there's a difference between saying, "That genre's just not for me," and looking down your nose at someone and calling them names.
Why comic-book movies have become so popular recently is anybody's guess. Personally, I think it was a combination of two things: A couple of filmmakers came along and made pretty decent movies out of comic-book characters, which showed everyone that it can actually be done. And I think Marvel and DC finally got their poop together and started insisting on more creative control of their characters.
But keep in mind too that movies go through fads. Remember a few years ago when romantic dramas were all the rage? The Notebook, Shakespeare in Love, Bridges of Madison County, Under the Tuscan Sun, Titanic, etc. The trend died off in favor of something else. I suspect the current fad will, too, come time.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say there. Clarify, please?
gladly. i've been on this planet for more than a day. i've seen the kinds of movies theyre making based on comic books. you say the good outweighs the bad and i disagree. the good have been few and far between and it's been a long time since they've come out with something even watchable. therefore, my common sense tells me that a bunch of more and more obscure comic-based movies is not something to get excited about or to even look forward to. again, im not against the genre just because, common sense has just allowed me to see what the genre has become.
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See list above. There's some dreck out there to be sure. But the good stuff -- at least over the past 5-10 years -- has outnumbered the bad.
i disagree with your list. these are matters of opinion, of course, but most of the movies on that list are drek. Batman The Dark Knight being the biggest piece of over-rated garbage on the list. this may sound horribly cinical, but the fact that Heath Ledger died making this film has added to it's critical acclaim. the truth is that Heath Ledger had an outstanding performance in the movie. i mean, the Joker was awesome. but EVERYTHING, and i mean EVERYTHING else about that movie was unwatchable.
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No, you didn't. You called her a nerd. And whether you intended to or not, you came across as a snob. You don't like comic-book movies? That's fine. I can't stand musicals. But there's a difference between saying, "That genre's just not for me," and looking down your nose at someone and calling them names.
well, that's your opinion, and i disagree. and although you seem like a smart dude, just because you say something doesnt make it so. seems to me that this will have to be left as a matter of perspective. but let me ask you this: do you feel as though i've been rude or condescending towards you in any way? if you re-look at my posts directed at JillBoBill, is my tone any different towards her than towards you?
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But keep in mind too that movies go through fads. Remember a few years ago when romantic dramas were all the rage? The Notebook, Shakespeare in Love, Bridges of Madison County, Under the Tuscan Sun, Titanic, etc. The trend died off in favor of something else. I suspect the current fad will, too, come time.
yeah probably. my original point to the OP was that the entire genre puts out 95 percent drek. you even agreed with me about what those films really are. so why get all excited over the prospect of what will in all likelyhood be more drek? in asking this of the OP i thought that i was treating her fairly. and yeah, sorry, JillBoBill, i did think you were a dude. but if i took you for a nerd based on one thing (that you evidently like comic-based movies) i would have probably (thinking you were a guy) asked if you had ever seeeeeeen a vagina. if i had a vagina, a donut, and a mop, could you pick it out of a line up?
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Go rent Beaches sometime. 
