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A few weeks back I was excited to finally watch the DC movie "Suicide Squad" and boy was I disappointed.
Last night I finally watched a Marvel movie that I have been wanting to see "Dr Strange" and it was really good. Even my wife enjoyed it.
What is it with DC? they just can't seem to get it right where as Marvel comic movies seem to keep making hit after hit. I haven't seen it yet but Wonder Woman is finally a hit for DC.
They both have access to the same special effects, the same caliber of actors but their movies just fall flat. It has to be the writers and how they portray the characters.
What is your favorite movie and your least favorite in this genre?
A few weeks back I was excited to finally watch the DC movie "Suicide Squad" and boy was I disappointed.
Last night I finally watched a Marvel movie that I have been wanting to see "Dr Strange" and it was really good. Even my wife enjoyed it.
What is it with DC? they just can't seem to get it right where as Marvel comic movies seem to keep making hit after hit. I haven't seen it yet but Wonder Woman is finally a hit for DC.
They both have access to the same special effects, the same caliber of actors but their movies just fall flat. It has to be the writers and how they portray the characters.
What is your favorite movie and your least favorite in this genre?
Unless you've seen Wonder Woman, you can't say DC "just can't get it right."
A few weeks back I was excited to finally watch the DC movie "Suicide Squad" and boy was I disappointed.
Last night I finally watched a Marvel movie that I have been wanting to see "Dr Strange" and it was really good. Even my wife enjoyed it.
What is it with DC? they just can't seem to get it right where as Marvel comic movies seem to keep making hit after hit. I haven't seen it yet but Wonder Woman is finally a hit for DC.
They both have access to the same special effects, the same caliber of actors but their movies just fall flat. It has to be the writers and how they portray the characters.
What is your favorite movie and your least favorite in this genre?
Wonder Women is my favorite by FAR! BVS wasn't bad as they say,
Ben did an awesome job as Batman
although I still love TDKR series the best. We like Suicide Squad the wife's got the hot's for Harley Quinn. Dr Strange rocked I loved it. The Wolverine movies.. don't get me started on them. Logan was MUCH better then expected. Marvel's Avengers tends to be their big hits. And with that said depending on what storyline and hero they can be rather dark, and Batman, Wolverine they are supposed to be dark.
One can get away with the Avengers being a bit campy same with movies like Guardians Of The Galaxy.
They both have access to the same special effects, the same caliber of actors but their movies just fall flat. It has to be the writers and how they portray the characters.
It is the writers and the directors. And yes, when you look at the total output, Marvel is putting DC to shame. DC has put out one classic in the past 20 years: Nolan's The Dark Knight. It has put out another really good (if flawed) movie: Wonder Woman. Everything else DC has released has ranged from mediocre at best to downright bad.
Marvel has only put out a couple of real stinkers and a whole lot of fun popcorn flicks. And even if I might quibble with their direction, there is no doubt the Marvel Masters have a direction. They have a vision and coherency to their movies. They are headed somewhere. With DC, I really do think executives are sitting in a room with a dart board, hoping their next shot will be a hit.
On the other hand ...
DC's animated films are putting Marvel's to shame, which makes no sense to me at all. Marvel is owned by Disney, which is the undisputed animation emperor of the planet. Yet Marvel's cartoons are badly written, and their animation looks like the studio had the budget of a McD's Happy Meal. Again, it all comes down to the writing and direction. DC's animated films have really excellent writers and directors behind them. Marvel's animated films and TV cartoons are badly manufactured product.
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Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
What is your favorite movie and your least favorite in this genre?
Favorite DC live action movie: The Dark Knight
Favorite DC animated movie: Batman: Under the Red Hood
Favorite Marvel live action movie: The Captain America movies. Can't pick. I loved them both.
Favorite Marvel animated movie: There isn't one.
It is the writers and the directors. And yes, when you look at the total output, Marvel is putting DC to shame. DC has put out one classic in the past 20 years: Nolan's The Dark Knight. It has put out another really good (if flawed) movie: Wonder Woman. Everything else DC has released has ranged from mediocre at best to downright bad.
Marvel has only put out a couple of real stinkers and a whole lot of fun popcorn flicks. And even if I might quibble with their direction, there is no doubt the Marvel Masters have a direction. They have a vision and coherency to their movies. They are headed somewhere. With DC, I really do think executives are sitting in a room with a dart board, hoping their next shot will be a hit.
On the other hand ...
DC's animated films are putting Marvel's to shame, which makes no sense to me at all. Marvel is owned by Disney, which is the undisputed animation emperor of the planet. Yet Marvel's cartoons are badly written, and their animation looks like the studio had the budget of a McD's Happy Meal. Again, it all comes down to the writing and direction. DC's animated films have really excellent writers and directors behind them. Marvel's animated films and TV cartoons are badly manufactured product.
Favorite DC live action movie: The Dark Knight
Favorite DC animated movie: Batman: Under the Red Hood
Favorite Marvel live action movie: The Captain America movies. Can't pick. I loved them both.
Favorite Marvel animated movie: There isn't one.
This is probably why I'm more biased towards DC. I grew up watching DC cartoons like Superman the Animated Series, Batman the Animated Series and Justice League.
DCEU live-action films have generally been underwhelming because they are starting from behind trying to play catch up. They've been reactionary trying to copy what has been successful in the past instead of having a gameplan.
It is the writers and the directors. And yes, when you look at the total output, Marvel is putting DC to shame. DC has put out one classic in the past 20 years: Nolan's The Dark Knight. It has put out another really good (if flawed) movie: Wonder Woman. Everything else DC has released has ranged from mediocre at best to downright bad.
Pump the brakes, buddy. That is an incredibly harsh criticism you just leveraged at DC. They've only put out two worthy films in the last 20 years? Forgot about Batman Begins...the single best origin CBM out there? I know you hate The Dark Knight Rises, but it's not the turd you make it out to be. Ditto for Man of Steel, the Superman movie we needed after Bryan Singer blew WB's money on that pitiful Donner-Superman knockoff. BvS rocks, too (seems a lot of people didn't get it).
If you want to bag on the likes of Batman & Robin (you said the last 20 years!), Superman Returns, Green Lantern, and Suicide Squad (which I like as a "popcorn movie"), I won't interfere.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
Marvel has only put out a couple of real stinkers and a whole lot of fun popcorn flicks. And even if I might quibble with their direction, there is no doubt the Marvel Masters have a direction. They have a vision and coherency to their movies. They are headed somewhere.
Many of Marvel's movies are going to be regarded differently in a couple decades. A couple truly great ones, a bunch of uneven popcorn entries you can turn your brain off for, and some pretty bad movies that will only look worse with time (like the Thor and Iron Man sequels). Right now, it's quantity > quality. If the Infinity movies turn out to be awesome, that will change. For now, many of the MCU's movies are seriously overrated. I hope Black Panther turns out to be kickass flick.
Fox's X-Universe is also aging badly, but when they can produce a First Class or the amazing Logan, that kind of helps make up for their past offenses. (Let's not talk about the FF movies.)
Sony...well, to me, they're dead in the water unless they produce something worth my time again.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
With DC, I really do think executives are sitting in a room with a dart board, hoping their next shot will be a hit.
They're not dartboarding so much as micromanaging. They micromanaged Zack's theatrical BvS cut (which is why the Ultimate Edition is superior in many ways), and they micromanaged David Ayer's Suicide Squad cut and ordered more humor for what should have been a darker film (look at the title of the movie, for starters).
But WB is the same company that was helmed by guys who for years wanted only Batman and Superman movies, and didn't want to bother with a conveyor-load of fantastic characters. They tried with Green Lantern and failed miserably (not Reynolds' fault, as neither the writing nor directing nor cinematography was anything that merited discussion).
Suddenly, they decide to let Patty Jenkins make her Wonder Woman movie and not mess with her. The end result continues to draw accolades (Chris Hemsworth says it's his favorite movie this year so far, and around ten other Marvel actors/affiliated persons have praised it), and its domestic gross is approaching 400 million dollars.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
Favorite Marvel live action movie: The Captain America movies. Can't pick. I loved them both.
Pump the brakes, buddy. That is an incredibly harsh criticism you just leveraged at DC.
Sometimes the truth hurts.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
They've only put out two worthy films in the last 20 years?
Depends on what you mean by “worthy,” I suppose. They have only put out two that I think even bear discussing as possibly great: The Dark Knight and Wonder Woman. And even though I absolutely loved WW and can’t wait to own it and watch it over and over again, I recognize it is very flawed, particularly in the third act.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
Forgot about Batman Begins ...the single best origin CBM out there?
No. Batman Begins started strong but grew progressively sillier as the movie went on. Batman was good, and Bale was great as Bruce Wayne. But Neeson was wasted as R’as al’Ghul, and his plan for Gotham was silly enough to warrant Adam West and Burt Ward trying to stop him.
And for the record, “best origin” ??? No way and nuh-uh. Even if you restrict the list to movies dealing with actual comic book characters and not those inspired by the genre (which would put UNBREAKABLE and THE INCREDIBLES off the list), then there are several movies that pulled this off way better than Batman Begins. IRON MAN and CAPTAIN AMERICA leap immediately to mind. And even though I know it will make your blood boil, I would say Donner’s SUPERMAN is superior, at least in the origin elements. The first half hour of that movie is great, if rather dated. It’s only after Clark moves to Metropolis that the movie starts to fumble worse than the Oakland Raiders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
I know you hate The Dark Knight Rises, but it's not the turd you make it out to be.
I wouldn’t call it that, because it does have its merits. Joseph Gordon Levitt is outstanding in the movie. Which is why so much of the rest of the movie is such a crime. It’s just a mess. A great movie was in there, but it’s like Nolan cut it into 40 pieces then tried to re-assemble it with 35 pieces of 9 other movies. It’s a mess.
And I am NOT in the "Nolan is an undisputed genius" camp. I think he's really talented and I have enjoyed a lot of his movies, but he also has a lot of flaws as a director.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
Ditto for Man of Steel, the Superman movie we needed after Bryan Singer blew WB's money on that pitiful Donner-Superman knockoff.
I really wish you’d stop trying to prop up Man of Steel by pointing out how bad Superman Returns was. I don’t know of a single person who has ever tried to defend Singer’s movie. MoS certainly had some good moments and a great cast. But the sum of its parts was a supreme disappointment. It ended up a 2 hour video-gamesque slugfest interspersed with moments of Ayn Randian gibberish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
BvS rocks, too (seems a lot of people didn't get it).
BvS rocks like Journey and REO Speedwagon. Meaning I know it made a lot of money and has its fans, but I just don’t get it. But if you don't want to stop believin', you go right ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
Many of Marvel's movies are going to be regarded differently in a couple decades. A couple truly great ones, a bunch of uneven popcorn entries you can turn your brain off for, and some pretty bad movies that will only look worse with time (like the Thor and Iron Man sequels).
I completely agree with that assessment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
Right now, it's quantity > quality. If the Infinity movies turn out to be awesome, that will change. For now, many of the MCU's movies are seriously overrated. I hope Black Panther turns out to be kickass flick.
I hope so too, but the teases for all of those films have left me with nothing but meh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
Fox's X-Universe is also aging badly, but when they can produce a First Class or the amazing Logan, that kind of helps make up for their past offenses. (Let's not talk about the FF movies.)
I don’t know that it is aging badly, since I thoroughly enjoyed FIRST CLASS and DAYS OF FUTURE PAST. APOCALYPSE was a pretty bad miss-step, and I don’t see the appeal of Deadpool at all. It’s dumb humor and its dumbest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
They're not dartboarding so much as micromanaging. They micromanaged Zack's theatrical BvS cut (which is why the Ultimate Edition is superior in many ways),
I have only seen the Ultimate Edition. Loved Wonder Woman. Loved Alfred. The rest of the movie is a loud, ugly mess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
Suddenly, they decide to let Patty Jenkins make her Wonder Woman movie and not mess with her. The end result continues to draw accolades (Chris Hemsworth says it's his favorite movie this year so far, and around ten other Marvel actors/affiliated persons have praised it), and its domestic gross is approaching 400 million dollars.
Yup. And I think that is the Primary Key to making a great comic book movie: Find a director with a love and vision for the character, give them the money they need to realize that vision, then stay out of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
Which, the first two or the second two?
Touche. And yes, THE FIRST AVENGER and WINTER SOLDIER. The others were really Avengers flicks released as Cap flicks. I didn’t hate them, but they definitely fall under the “mindless popcorn flick” category.
No. Batman Begins started strong but grew progressively sillier as the movie went on. Batman was good, and Bale was great as Bruce Wayne. But Neeson was wasted as R’as al’Ghul, and his plan for Gotham was silly enough to warrant Adam West and Burt Ward trying to stop him.
I don’t know that it is aging badly, since I thoroughly enjoyed FIRST CLASS and DAYS OF FUTURE PAST. APOCALYPSE was a pretty bad miss-step, and I don’t see the appeal of Deadpool at all. It’s dumb humor and its dumbest.
Yup. And I think that is the Primary Key to making a great comic book movie: Find a director with a love and vision for the character, give them the money they need to realize that vision, then stay out of the way.
I am not a fan of the Batman movies, I watch them but at the end I am hardly blown away. I saw the "Dark Knight" at the Drive in and I remember people cheering and blowing their horns at the end. All I could think was "what a mess of a movie.
Batman Begins seemed like an excuse to throw in some Ninjas and I agree with you about Neeson.
Xmen is a franchise that grows on you. Deadpool was just plain ridiculous fun. Dr Strange cracked a few jokes here and there that helped to make the character likeable. one has to admit that he was a real jerk before and after the car accident.
Antman was another one that was just plain goofy fun.
I do agree with you that when a studio decides to make a superhero movie they need to find a director that loves the characters and writers that can deliver a fun exciting story.
Who can ever forget the odd 1997 Batman and Robin movie.
What is it with DC? they just can't seem to get it right
The Dark Knight, Superman The Movie, and Wonder Woman all got it quite right. In fact, they are much better movies than literally every single piece of MCU superhero "comedy" tripe ever released.
I checked with Merriam and Webster, and they said, I quote, "truth ≠ opinion."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
No. Batman Begins started strong but grew progressively sillier as the movie went on. Batman was good, and Bale was great as Bruce Wayne. But Neeson was wasted as R’as al’Ghul, and his plan for Gotham was silly enough to warrant Adam West and Burt Ward trying to stop him.
"Grew progressively more silly"? You're literally the only person I've seen say that. Methinks you're stuck in the Silver Age, hence the reference to West & Ward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
And for the record, “best origin” ??? No way and nuh-uh. Even if you restrict the list to movies dealing with actual comic book characters and not those inspired by the genre (which would put UNBREAKABLE and THE INCREDIBLES off the list), then there are several movies that pulled this off way better than Batman Begins. IRON MAN and CAPTAIN AMERICA leap immediately to mind. And even though I know it will make your blood boil, I would say Donner’s SUPERMAN is superior, at least in the origin elements. The first half hour of that movie is great, if rather dated. It’s only after Clark moves to Metropolis that the movie starts to fumble worse than the Oakland Raiders.
Way! Yeah-huh! I know quite a few people who agree (not on this forum, since this place gets much less CBM talk). Iron Man and Captain America: The First Avenger are both great origin movies, though. The thing with both is that the last thirds take it down a notch (Iron Man's is particularly flimsy). They just both have this feeling of "let's wrap it up, let's get this over with), especially Iron Man with its lackluster showdown. OTOH, Batman Begins unfurls a much more convincing third act, with visuals taken straight out of Frank Miller's Batman: Year One. Double-win! When I watched it on DVD, I regretted skipping it in the theater (thanks, Schumacher).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
I wouldn’t call it that, because it does have its merits. Joseph Gordon Levitt is outstanding in the movie. Which is why so much of the rest of the movie is such a crime. It’s just a mess. A great movie was in there, but it’s like Nolan cut it into 40 pieces then tried to re-assemble it with 35 pieces of 9 other movies. It’s a mess.
Not even props for Tom Hardy's Bane? Are you sure you watched it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
And I am NOT in the "Nolan is an undisputed genius" camp. I think he's really talented and I have enjoyed a lot of his movies, but he also has a lot of flaws as a director.
He's still a cut or three above many others. Do you think JJ Abrams would make a movie like Interstellar? Do you think Joss would make Inception? You get my drift.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
I really wish you’d stop trying to prop up Man of Steel by pointing out how bad Superman Returns was. I don’t know of a single person who has ever tried to defend Singer’s movie.
You don't. I do. And I have a big problem with Returns, being that it was a lame if expensive-looking pastiche of an earlier, better film. That movie did nothing but curb Superman's appeal to the public, not to mention Kate Bosworth was the worst Lois Lane we've gotten since the toaster was invented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
MoS certainly had some good moments and a great cast. But the sum of its parts was a supreme disappointment. It ended up a 2 hour video-gamesque slugfest interspersed with moments of Ayn Randian gibberish.
A 2-hr slugfest? Come on, you're embarrassing the Exaggerators of America Coalition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
BvS rocks like Journey and REO Speedwagon. Meaning I know it made a lot of money and has its fans, but I just don’t get it. But if you don't want to stop believin', you go right ahead.
I guess that makes Iron Man 3 and Avengers: Age of Ultron the Backstreet Boys and Justin Bieber of CBMs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
I don’t know that it is aging badly, since I thoroughly enjoyed FIRST CLASS and DAYS OF FUTURE PAST. APOCALYPSE was a pretty bad miss-step, and I don’t see the appeal of Deadpool at all. It’s dumb humor and its dumbest.
The initial X-trilogy doesn't look good. The first Wolverine movie is forgettable fare. DoFP started out solidly but finished predictably. Singer doesn't know how to juggle a lot of characters the way other directors can (like Matt Vaughn, who was originally supposed to direct it, till he went for Kingsman). I didn't bother with Apocalypse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
I have only seen the Ultimate Edition. Loved Wonder Woman. Loved Alfred. The rest of the movie is a loud, ugly mess.
The warehouse scene is the best Bat-action in cinema history!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
Touche. And yes, THE FIRST AVENGER and WINTER SOLDIER. The others were really Avengers flicks released as Cap flicks. I didn’t hate them, but they definitely fall under the “mindless popcorn flick” category.
Still the best MCU movie. Not sure if they can top it. They really should have completed the trilogy instead of turning Cap III into a de facto Avengers episode.
Last edited by AFtrEFkt; 07-31-2017 at 11:32 AM..
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Dr Strange rocked I loved it. The Wolverine movies.. don't get me started on them. Logan was MUCH better then expected. Marvel's Avengers tends to be their big hits. And with that said depending on what storyline and hero they can be rather dark, and Batman, Wolverine they are supposed to be dark.
