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Been riding a long time, some on some really worn tires yet I don't think I've seen or heard of a worn tire causing a crash.......anybody have anything on that?
I've been a mechanic since 2000.... lots and LOTS of crash repair due to worn and/or old tires (I consider an old tire as "worn", just age vs abrasion) ~ you see this Mostly on sportbikes. Some crash damage due to overloaded tires from those foolish touring people who insist on towing a trailer. The off-road/dual sport guys tend to fall over lots anyway, they usually replace tires when they loose traction anyway (and don't push on pavement as the tires are already squirrely).
Oddly enough, I've seen a few instances of crashing on brand new tires too. Contrary to the myth, it's not "release compounds". It's the sudden profile change, from a flat-middle tire that needs a LOT of steering input to turn to a new/round (sometimes triangle) profile tire that takes very little effort, it's easy to put the old effort input into new tires and turn yourself right into the ground. Easy to perpetuate the "release compound" myth to get people to ride gently though...
Are we talking about motorcycles or cars? I can't imagine riding a bike on worn tires, if one blows then there is a good chance you will crash.
I replaced the tires on my custom car last season. They looked fine with plenty of tread, no dry rot and only 17000 miles on them but the sheer age of them was causing issues that at first I thought was coming from the front suspension/alignment. It turned out the tires were starting to fall apart, actually harden on the inside.
Once replaced my handling problems went away.
If you are questioning you tires especially on a bike you should replace them.
Interesting timing for this post as I was just in a discussion with the manager at my local Cycle Gear a few weeks back about the tech inspectors at certain trackday companies being overly critical and cautious regarding tire conditions. He was of the opinion that you shouldnt even buy tires more than 9 months (+/-) old and that you should buy new tires at least every other event.
My thoughts are that, at a minimum, you really need to be at the level of a WERA/CCS/Club Racing expert to even begin to push the limits of a modern trackday or even sport touring compound tire. I corner worked for a trackday company for almost 10 years and in that time not once did I see someone lowside due to worn tires. 90% of crashes that I see at the track are due to riders charging into corners at entry speeds beyond their capability. This causes them to target fixate which in turn causes them to grab to much front brake or just plane run off the track and down they go. Out come the yellow flags.
Track time is not cheap and for the inspectors to require you to buy new tires (or send you home) is just ridiculous. Now I'm not saying they should let riders on track with tires that are showing cords or have a 2 inch wide flat spot in the middle but the inspectors need to be reasonable IMO.
I've been a mechanic since 2000.... lots and LOTS of crash repair due to worn and/or old tires (I consider an old tire as "worn", just age vs abrasion) ~ you see this Mostly on sportbikes. Some crash damage due to overloaded tires from those foolish touring people who insist on towing a trailer. The off-road/dual sport guys tend to fall over lots anyway, they usually replace tires when they loose traction anyway (and don't push on pavement as the tires are already squirrely).
Oddly enough, I've seen a few instances of crashing on brand new tires too. Contrary to the myth, it's not "release compounds". It's the sudden profile change, from a flat-middle tire that needs a LOT of steering input to turn to a new/round (sometimes triangle) profile tire that takes very little effort, it's easy to put the old effort input into new tires and turn yourself right into the ground. Easy to perpetuate the "release compound" myth to get people to ride gently though...
Thanks for the great input from actual experience.......answered my question nicely and at the moment my bike is riding on new Michelin PR-4's so not an actual concern......
Interesting timing for this post as I was just in a discussion with the manager at my local Cycle Gear a few weeks back about the tech inspectors at certain trackday companies being overly critical and cautious regarding tire conditions. He was of the opinion that you shouldnt even buy tires more than 9 months (+/-) old and that you should buy new tires at least every other event.
My thoughts are that, at a minimum, you really need to be at the level of a WERA/CCS/Club Racing expert to even begin to push the limits of a modern trackday or even sport touring compound tire. I corner worked for a trackday company for almost 10 years and in that time not once did I see someone lowside due to worn tires. 90% of crashes that I see at the track are due to riders charging into corners at entry speeds beyond their capability. This causes them to target fixate which in turn causes them to grab to much front brake or just plane run off the track and down they go. Out come the yellow flags.
Track time is not cheap and for the inspectors to require you to buy new tires (or send you home) is just ridiculous. Now I'm not saying they should let riders on track with tires that are showing cords or have a 2 inch wide flat spot in the middle but the inspectors need to be reasonable IMO.
As a veteran of who knows how many track days, and three years of AFM events, 1995-2005, tons of crashes are related to tires. I myself crashed twice definitely due to tire issues: once, using street vs. race (not too clever, my fault) and second due to overheating the race Dunlop rear. Greasy tire and track: off she went, after about the seventh smoking-fast lap on a really hot summer track day in the afternoon. Highside, and kerSMACK!
If they (inspectors) are anymore being "overly" critical, they probably aren't critical enough. Probably reduces crashes at track days about 25% being that way. Not sure it's ridiculous, if the tire guy is right there at the track. I'd check that AHEAD of time.
Tires were my primary expense, I suppose, at track days once bought-in on equipment of course. Primary consumable expense, then. The Dunlop, Metzeler, and Pirelli trucks just showed up at track days and definitely race days, some events (by no means all) and did a booming business. Once I wised up and went to race-only rubber, life was sooooo much better at track days. Never ran slicks, though, amusingly enough. Take offs, yes, though I'm not sure that is too clever anymore either.
As a veteran of who knows how many track days, and three years of AFM events, 1995-2005, tons of crashes are related to tires.
Well I dont know how fast you are/were but I do know the AFM is one of the fastest most competitive clubs in the country so I'm willing to bet that you're faster then 99% of the people that ride sport bikes. So obviously you're at a level where tire life is an issue. But there's just no reason for someone in the intermediate or beginner group at a trackday to buy new tires if they dont have to and cost is the primary reason many riders never make to the track at all. So they end up railing around some twisty mountain road at triple the recommended speed displayed on the yellow curve sign and thus risk getting a ticket, going to jail or getting killed.
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