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I haven't done a valve adjustment, or a compression test or oil change because i need to wait for my paycheck to have the 40 bucks it takes to get feeler gauges and a compression gauge and oil.
Im convinced it is running on one cylinder but Im not in a good position to check it out right now the current oil reeks of gas and that could be rings but it its probably the fuel valve wasn't shut off for the last week.. old oil any way still cant run it til friday.
We had the bike for 2 weeks now, last paycheck was the final payment to get it and a replacement engine.
we spent an hour a day a bout last week putting in the good engine but only had the tools to bolt it in.
so i check the connections and oil and fired it up to see what is going on
dies when i pull the left plug but not when i pull the right, yes the pipes are two different temperatures.
couldnt feel anything wonky when going round the block but this is my second bike that id turned wrenches on and i just dont have experience so i dunno probably wasn't running right...
Looked at the carbs and all jets were clear floats not stuck and fuel line clear
my questions are - is there " 2 turns out" setting on jets ( pilot/starter little skrew one) ? or do all the jets "seat home" ?
is there someone out there that has a stock 450 night hawk that can contact me or tell me here some of the quirks that may appear off but are just how the bike is ?
and i forgot my other question so ill be back when i remember it
Ugh... baseline. Without knowing that all the Common maintenance items are known good, you're just chasing an imaginary tail. Grab a service manual (if your morals allow, there are .pdf versions online) and do all of the service items.
As for the carb question, the air/fuel mixture screw is should be lightly seated and then backed off. 1.5 turns is normal, but you can get up towards 2 and 2.5 on some bikes. Setting these with a manometer is best. The Pilot jet (and main jet) should be fully seated ~ these have holes through which the fuel flows where the air/fuel mixture screw is just a tapered needle.
Last, there are plenty of Honda CB forums/email lists and groups out there. Search them out, you'll find people who've been working on them since they were new on dealer floors. I don't think anyone in here is that expert, though someone may surprise me. If you were working on an 86 or 87 VFR, I'd be your guy... never did like the CB line though.
you are right. After I get paid and i get some other tools i'll post again. the only culprit i think is wrong is a stuck exhaust valve.
Ive done all the maintenance things i can with the tools i have and whats left is-
-valves
- timing (maybe)
Just got this engine and im focused on not fiddling with something thats already set up right.
right now i want to see who is out here..... so no not expecting a poster to be able to help today.... but be introduced.
I have scoured the honda related cb forums ( lots of guys talking 72s and points and valve adjuster access caps.... completely different engine) I have 4 manuals 2 generic bike repair books and 2 generic "honda fours" "honda twin" manuals from the 70s...and on the list with all the things i need money for is a copy of the 80s night hawk manual... tho there is one downloaded on wifeys tablet and thats how i got this far. but this post is premature til friday.
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Easy way to check if it's running on one cylinder is to spritz a little water on the header pipes, I'd used distilled water so there's no mineral residue.
did a thumb compression test and cant keep my thumb on either cylinder they both feel like they are pushing the same strength... took off the valve cover and rotated the engine and saw all valves opening and closing ( adjustment check comes tomorrow.
My neighbor surprised me today he speaks little english but he asked to see the spark so i put the plugs in the boots and laid them on the head and cranked it ( at this time both plug wires were on the right side of the bike to make way for the valve cover moving)
after he didnt see anything, he grabbed the business end of the plug and cranked the engine! he received no shock.. no spark ( i thought i saw spark a week ago..... )
here is the weird part.... he was holding the left plug wire ( the supposed good one) with the plug in the boot
so perhaps my wires are shorting and i need a new coil?
Im looking in to ohm testing my coil, manual says .55ohm +/- .055 for primary .8 +/- .08ohm secondary
Ive never done this before so i got ready for work and im looking into how to test coils during down time cause its not clear by the downloaded 82 450 nighthawk manual pdf which-one-where is primary or secondary or even where to put the meter leads.
By the service info I have, there's only one coil that feeds both plugs in a "wasted spark" configuration (meaning both plugs fire at the same time, even when the cylinder is not in compression stroke). If the bike ran at ALL, that means everything up to, and including, the coil is fine. Not much left for troubleshooting. Chances are good it's a bad wire connection or corrosion.
Doing 100% of the normal scheduled services. Oil change, valve lash, new air filter, new spark plugs, etc... it's all the stuff listed in the Maintenance Schedule (and here's a copy, found in the owners manual ~ this is stuff you want to do to ANY bike that's new to you before riding, just as the most basic of safety precautions):
Ignore the Frequency, you have no idea when it was done last (or if it has ever been done). Do every item before riding, obviously you'll want the engine running before you bother with most of them. When all of these items are done, you have gotten the bike to a "Baseline", a known point that anyone can understand. It drastically speeds up troubleshooting when you have already done all of these things (doesn't matter the vehicle) as they address the largest majority of problems.
You also have a whole other set of issues that will be related to Age. Vehicles that sit tend to rot. Plastics, rubber parts, gaskets, etc... all crumble and fall apart. Metal corrodes, fluids oxidize and turn gummy, then hard. When I was flipping motorcycles for a living, it'd take me about 10 hours to get an already running bike up to snuff. It'd take 20~30 hours to get a non-running bike fully sorted and reliable. This as someone who both has training/factory certification and who was doing between 6 and 10 bikes a month, which means I was faster than someone who's never done it. At least you have a fairly simple motorcycle, I can't see that thing taking much more than 5 hours to fully sort out/do all the maintenance on.
That is extremely helpful. Thank you. Today i got paid and by the time i got my check and deposited it i went and dropped off the the busted engine ( the one that was in the bike on delivery) back to the shop it was an hour til work. like a noob i took him the coil aswell so he could verify if it was good. he told me he needed it in the bike but put it to the side and got me one he knew was good. went home and put it in, checked for spark .. it was there.
changed the oil and buttoned up all the things i was fiddling with. ran it to see what it would do. now if you pull either plug it will stop running.. and there was talk about it picking up rpms faster when throttled. so with that im going to move on to the maintenance service checklist and go from there. off tomorrow and the next day with a pocket full of tool and part money ( aka just options) for getting thru the service list and after....
...right now im simply happy that the bike is behaving consistently, and at this stage im not above taking it in to him so someone with experience can set it up. after all its not my bike.
you are right. After I get paid and i get some other tools i'll post again. the only culprit i think is wrong is a stuck exhaust valve.
Ive done all the maintenance things i can with the tools i have and whats left is-
-valves
- timing (maybe)
Just got this engine and im focused on not fiddling with something thats already set up right.
right now i want to see who is out here..... so no not expecting a poster to be able to help today.... but be introduced.
I have scoured the honda related cb forums ( lots of guys talking 72s and points and valve adjuster access caps.... completely different engine) I have 4 manuals 2 generic bike repair books and 2 generic "honda fours" "honda twin" manuals from the 70s...and on the list with all the things i need money for is a copy of the 80s night hawk manual... tho there is one downloaded on wifeys tablet and thats how i got this far. but this post is premature til friday.
So...the Clymer manual is $30 on eBay. Looked it up, just for giggles. They used to have OK troubleshooting tips in the back, as did the stock manuals.
Over the years, I had both good and bad luck with Clymer. Fixed a few problems with those for-sure from bad bearings (had to be hydraulically pressed in and out) to 1,001 other things on my 1980s bikes. Best manual I ever had was actually from Honda, for my 1999 CRB1100XX. Did quite a bit with that over nine years of ownership.
Being broke back then (1980s), I made do with crude tools. If you actually pulled an engine, and replaced it, with garbage tools you're pretty brave. I wouldn't do that without a lift anymore, but I've passed beyond dealing with with junk on junk's terms, so to speak. And I'm to assume that the valves have to be manually checked? What "timing" are you referring to, the valve cam timing, i.e. degree of duration on the cams? The other "timing" is handled by electronic ignitions, hopefully. Never had to deal with that on any vehicle, personally, nor would I want to (points and all that).
Last engine I replaced, on an '86 600 Ninja, my problem was dialing the carbs correctly: jetting! Too, I once had a Triumph engine go out of whack between cylinders due to carb synchronization, requiring vacuum gauges to mate up. Did not see the prior, or since, on any bike but see "garbage tools" comment, earlier: needed to do it right, or not at all.
I got jetting close then had it turned on a dyno for a couple hundred bucks to get it right between the mains, pilots, and all that. Man, to not deal with that **** every again! My 2003 was the first 600 with FI, though my first FI bike was actually a 1990 model. Hmph. Push button warfare from that point forward.
Yeah, guessing spark is off on one cylinder, but I'm not there. Could be lots of things. You're brave to put time into something with residual value = zero. I'd probably exert the effort on a 1982 BMW R100S instead, but hey: it's a free country.
PS (OT):
My buddy Ken has a great article on collectibles and his particular R100S, which still held residual value years later.
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