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Not a fan of the styling on the GSX. Kinda looks like a wimpy, wanna be GSXR.
The Kawasaki Ninja 650R is a good bike but is down on power a bit to the SV. I currently have a naked 2001 SV650 and really love it. Prior to this I'd never had anything but I-4's, so I'm really liking the instantaneous power of the V-Twin.
There is a reason that you see sooooo many SV650's on the grid at club racing venues throughout the country and that is simply because they are a blast to ride, handle great and are ultra reliable. IMO, the Suzuki SV650 is the best of the three. It is lighter and handles better than the GSX and has a bit more power than the Kawasaki Ninja 650R. You should be able to pick up a good used SV for about $3k.
You might also consider a Ducati Monster or a Triumph Speed Triple if you can afford them, although as a first bike they might be kinda pricey because you will drop it at some point.
Also, after you've been riding on the street for about 8 months but before you even consider hitting the twisty mountain roads near your home, do at least one trackday. It's a safe environment for acclimating senses (your vision in particular) and reflexes to sport riding.
I agree on the GSX, it seems its a bit 'ricey' for me, but I have heard good things about the motor and suspension.
I'm a big fan of the monster, but they tend to be much more expensive with similar miles to a 650 or SV
Find an SV with 10-20k miles, unless you ride more than 90% of the riders I've met, you'll likely put 5,000 miles a year on the bike if you're lucky. Mileage isn't all that important in the world of motorcycling, the difference in price between an 05 with 20,000 miles and an 05 with 7,000 miles is negligible at best.
Dealerships are nice to purchase bikes from, but I skip them in favor of private sellers...when it comes to maintenance, do your own, you'll be surprised at how little "maintenance" a motorcycle needs, and it'll give you a great sense of accomplishment and keep you in tune with your machine.
I tried to talk a good friend of mine into the idea of buy used, and buy cheap for your first bike as there's no guarantee you'll even take to motorcycling. He purchased new, and paid to much. Also purchased an extended warranty, etc. Reason he purchased new was a fear of not having a warranty on the machine he purchased. He was also worried on the used market because of the low mileage of many of the bikes he found. He'd typically say "That's an 06 but it only has 4,000 miles on it, what's wrong with it?" I tried to explain that bikes don't get ridden as much as cars, and they mileage stays low...anyway, long story short, the guy ended up selling his new bike about 2 years later, and taking a bit of a bath on the sale. He didn't mind riding, but hated the motorcycles seat, and was unwilling to spend the $$ to buy an aftermarket model, or put the seat time in to break his seat and butt in.
As a guy who's owned four motorcycles, 3 at one time, I can tell you I've spent under $3,500 on the bikes, combined! First bike was a 79' Honda bought in 05', second was a 02' SV bought in 09, then a 85' Nighthawk in 10' and a 96' Magna bought in 11'. I've also managed to sell each bike for more than I paid for it. Key has been to look for the good deals, and when they showed up, jump on them. The only bike that took ANY real repairs was the 85 Nighthawk. It had about 25k miles when I purchased it, and I rebuilt and eventually replaced the starter, and had to replace all the hydraulic fluids for the clutch and brakes. The Magna gave me a little trouble from the fuel filter and the charging system, but everything was fixed on it for less than $100. All have had new batteries from time to time, and I've put tires on everything but the Nighthawk.
Cheap fun!
PS - The SV is the best bike on your list...but i'm hella biased!
Find an SV with 10-20k miles, unless you ride more than 90% of the riders I've met, you'll likely put 5,000 miles a year on the bike if you're lucky. Mileage isn't all that important in the world of motorcycling, the difference in price between an 05 with 20,000 miles and an 05 with 7,000 miles is negligible at best.
Dealerships are nice to purchase bikes from, but I skip them in favor of private sellers...when it comes to maintenance, do your own, you'll be surprised at how little "maintenance" a motorcycle needs, and it'll give you a great sense of accomplishment and keep you in tune with your machine.
I tried to talk a good friend of mine into the idea of buy used, and buy cheap for your first bike as there's no guarantee you'll even take to motorcycling. He purchased new, and paid to much. Also purchased an extended warranty, etc. Reason he purchased new was a fear of not having a warranty on the machine he purchased. He was also worried on the used market because of the low mileage of many of the bikes he found. He'd typically say "That's an 06 but it only has 4,000 miles on it, what's wrong with it?" I tried to explain that bikes don't get ridden as much as cars, and they mileage stays low...anyway, long story short, the guy ended up selling his new bike about 2 years later, and taking a bit of a bath on the sale. He didn't mind riding, but hated the motorcycles seat, and was unwilling to spend the $$ to buy an aftermarket model, or put the seat time in to break his seat and butt in.
As a guy who's owned four motorcycles, 3 at one time, I can tell you I've spent under $3,500 on the bikes, combined! First bike was a 79' Honda bought in 05', second was a 02' SV bought in 09, then a 85' Nighthawk in 10' and a 96' Magna bought in 11'. I've also managed to sell each bike for more than I paid for it. Key has been to look for the good deals, and when they showed up, jump on them. The only bike that took ANY real repairs was the 85 Nighthawk. It had about 25k miles when I purchased it, and I rebuilt and eventually replaced the starter, and had to replace all the hydraulic fluids for the clutch and brakes. The Magna gave me a little trouble from the fuel filter and the charging system, but everything was fixed on it for less than $100. All have had new batteries from time to time, and I've put tires on everything but the Nighthawk.
Cheap fun!
PS - The SV is the best bike on your list...but i'm hella biased!
Good info on the mileage, thanks. I was starting to think that a bike will only last to 20k miles because everything I see has under 10k miles. I use to race cars, so I am somewhat accustomed to doing minor maintenance. However I couldnt afford spending 1k+ every season on tires, then brakes, track time, yada yada. Figured a bike would be an inexpensive way to get a bit of a rush, and freedom. Most of the SV650s in my area are modded to sht, and I just dont know enough about bikes to make sure it was done correctly. But I do think it is a very nice clean bike
Good info on the mileage, thanks. I was starting to think that a bike will only last to 20k miles because everything I see has under 10k miles.
heh, most people think like you, that a bike is "done" at 20~30k miles. Usually means that prices drop substantially (normally, not always) when that mileage is reached. My best on one bike is 120,000 miles before I just couldn't stand to ride it anymore, and I bought that one used, sold it to a vintage racer who went on to win a championship with it... stock engine. That was a 1986 bike, things have come a long way since 1986. 100k miles is nothing for a motorcycle that's been taken care of, and I've seen/spoken with a few who have 200~300k miles on things like GSXRs and R1's ~ you wouldn't normally expect a high-strung race spec vehicle to hit those kinds of miles without issue... it's just a testament to build quality.
I'm cheap and have a hard time spending more than ~$2k on a motorcycle so I tend to end up with high mile bikes but I generally don't end up with a bike that has less than 20k miles and most are in the 30~50k range.
Folks do tend to modify the SV, and I'm like you that I'd take an unmolested model prior to a modified bike...however, if things looked like they were done right, i wouldn't have a problem with a modified bike, but I wouldn't pay extra money for the modifications!
Typical SV mods are GSXR forks as the SV suspension is a bit soft if you decide to track the bike, or drive very aggressively with it on the street. And the mufflers are often aftermarket, which wouldn't bother me as long as the condition was good. The SV sounds wicked cool with a good exhaust on it, not whiny like some of the I-4, but has a great bark to it.
And as Brian just said, it's not uncommon for bikes to go many many miles...the issue is as bikes age, their values do decrease and sometimes a small accident may not warrant a rebuild of an old bike...parts can be expensive from the dealership, and many full coverage machines are written off before they ever get to 100k miles. But as stated, engines will last significantly more than 25k miles, and 100k miles can easily be achieved with some good upkeep.
You'll likely run through a set of tires every season or two at most...so expect those to be needed at about $300-400 installed. Chains will wear out in 25k miles, if you take care of them...10k miles if you don't. And expect brake pads to wear in the 30k mile range. Just helping with some planning.
Thanks for the words everyone, I really appreciate it. I have spent hours reading on forums, and the few posts here have been even better.
Great to hear that bikes are just broken in around 25k miles. I'm a bit concerned about checking out used bikes from owners since I'm clueless, but I would assume its pretty similar to the car world -no motor knocks or odd sounds, smooth brakes, smooth gear shifts, good idle. I'm very excited to work on one as well, having a small garage I cant do much car stuff, but it will give me plenty of room for a bike.
I'm definetly leaning towards an inexpensive SV650 and I like the naked look and simple headlight. However I need to get approval from the lady friend first, and she of course likes the 650r more.
...However I need to get approval from the lady friend first, and she of course likes the 650r more.
Of course she would, it's a girl's bike
Jk, the only thing I don't like on the 650r is the design of the gas tank...it's tall and narrow, as opposed to the wider tanks seen on many sportbikes. The fairings on the 650R are nice, and the location of the rear shock absorber is interesting.
Both bikes ride very similarly, and power is about even. The SV has a better torque curve than the inline twin Kawasaki, which makes the bike "feel" faster. I always looked at the Suzuki V-twin as being the cheap man's Ducati Monster. You can find early 00's Ducati's in the $3500-$4500 range, but I wouldn't recommend a Ducati as a first bike for a person who's trying to learn about maintenance. Just avoid the highly modified bikes, an exhaust is pretty idiot proof...but give it a look over.
Things to check out on a bike (for me).
Oil Leaks (Head Gasket, Rocker Cover Gasket, Base of Engine...can be more difficult with fairings)
Coolant Leaks (Leaks at radiator, water pump, engine)
Condition of Coolant (Check for color, ensure no mixing of oil and coolant)
Condition of Tires (Check Depth, Tires should be round side to side, and not flat through the middle. Commuting will flatten a tire out)
Age of tires (Look for age cracks)
Fork Seals (check for cracking / leaking)
Steering Bearings (Smoothly able to turn the bars from lock to lock)
Age of battery (ask if it's difficult to get to)
Condition of Chain (Will let you know a lot about the overall condition of the bike...Rusty chain will let you know that some maintenance was likely skipped at different times)
Brakes (Adequate pad remaining)
All lights, turn signals, horn
Do a test ride for at least a few minutes, get up to speed, see how well it runs, and see if you notice any strange vibrations, specifically through the steering.
Even still, after all checks I've been burned on the ride home by a bike with a malfunctioning automatic fuel shutoff valve. End result was me stranded on the highway about three miles outside of town. If you find a nice local bike, it shouldn't be an issue...me getting burned happened by me being dumb and overconfident in my inspection and test ride...i attempted to make a 90 mile ride back to St. Louis after purchasing the Magna very cheap. Reason it was cheap was that the guy couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, but that's not what he told me.
I don't know what board you'll find for the Ninja 650R, but i'm sure there is one. Check "SVrider.com" for info on the SV...some there might have opinions on the 650r as well, but expect it to be biased :P
I'm a bit concerned about checking out used bikes from owners since I'm clueless, but I would assume its pretty similar to the car world -no motor knocks or odd sounds, smooth brakes, smooth gear shifts, good idle.
I would STRONGLY advise you to not do the pre-purchase inspection yourself on your first bike. Screw up on a car and you've got a metal cage around you. Screw up on a bike and you're falling, sliding and bouncing off stationary objects when something you didn't know to look for causes a failure. Pay a professional mechanic to do the job for you (normally 1 hour shop rate, so $60~80), as a bonus you'll have a documented piece of paper from a mechanic detailing what's wrong, usually comes in VERY handy on price negotiations.
For a mechanic, skip the dealer grunts (typically the worst wrenches in the business, seems that way on the car side too) and look for an independent. If you have a racetrack within ~200 miles there's almost certainly a mechanic that the racers in the area prefer ~ try and find that person if you can.
Personally, I don't test-ride bikes because I don't trust the condition of a used bike that I haven't gone over myself. This stems from one experience where a bent-framed bike almost tossed me on my butt during a test-ride... not keen to crash a bike/lose my money due to someone elses failure to disclose the true condition of the vehicle... or though their neglect and suffer a failure of some kind. I do a visual inspection checking a few key areas that indicate a bad crash (that are often overlooked when replacing parts), always check the 'known' faults after reading forums (some bikes have issues where the frame cracks, and I've found them in the past... instant pass), check to make sure the engine is cold to the touch and start the bike when they are runners (most that I buy aren't) and then do a compression test. Sometimes, if a bike is known to have issues (Suzuki and 2nd gear failures are pretty well known), I'll ask the owner to ride it and hit the throttle hard in 2nd either as I ride next to them or as they pass me. But I've also been fix and flipping bikes since 2000 and average 8~10 a year, so I have a little experience in the area of buying bikes. In that time I've only made one mistake that almost cost me money and that was on a BMTroubleU (BMW), freakin money pit of a motorcycle.
Anyway, point is to spend a little money and have someone who knows motorcycles take a look before you buy. I know that I pass on about 1 bike in 10~15, and have advised a few of my customers to pass on bikes over the years. Might save you from a big $$$ mistake, though most likely you'll be able to just negotiate more than the cost of the inspection off the purchase price.
Most everyone has given you very solid, valuable advice so no need repeating the same stuff but instead add a few more that I feel would be applicable.
DO RESEARCH BEFORE SEEING THE BIKE:
After You search the ads and made a list of what specific bikes you are definitely interested in buying,
visit Motorcycle Recalls to see if there were any recalls applicable to those makes and model. Write them down.
Then visit both Kelley Blue Book and NADA sites to gather the current market value for those bikes.
With KBB, you will have to add the Retail and Wholesale values then divide the sum by 2 to get a median value. NADA, to most, is often more accurate. Seller's will often ask/expect KBB's Retail value. As a seller, you want it as close to wholesale value as possible. I'd strongly advice against paying a dime over the value stated by NADA for the bike's applicable condition unless it's a collector/custom bike. Add any applicable, truly valuable mods to the value.
Print them as you can use them during price negotiations. Also check eBay and craig's list to see what same (make/model/year) bikes sold for in the last couple of months. You can customize your search on eBay motors to show you all "sold" bikes. This would clue you in on what the average value roughly is on a national scale.
ON THE DAY YOU WILL SEE THE BIKE: - I always tell theseller not to start the bike beforehand and that I would like to see it start from cold.
If they need to check to make sure the bike is starting, running, etc. They can do so a day or so ahead but on the day I am coming, I want it stone cold. I even touch the engine to see if it was started. After I explicitly told them not to do so, if they still have done it or the engine seems warm. I ask them why they had done so even when I told them not to but I generally walk away.
- Since no one should buy a vehicle without proper paperwork, ask for the title! Compare the VIN # to the numbers on the bike, also see the registration. The seller should have all paperwork ready when someone comes to see their vehicle (for sale). If they can't provide you the paperwork or there is any discrepancy with VIN #, walk away.
- Make sure registration is current. Expired tags, depending on what year it was last registered, could mean a lot of extra $$ out of Your pocket. Unregistered bikes are also (typically) neglected and/or have major issues. If that is the case, ask why. Unless you had this info beforehand and this is a project bike, I say walk away.
- If the seller claimed any maintenance, repairs or modifications, ask for records, receipts, etc. If they fail to produce the paperwork, ignore their claims and consider as that work was not done unless it is something you can easily tell or visually confirm.
What to bring: If you are allowed to do a test ride and want to do so, make sure you bring your riding gear with you. At least whatever is required by law. I always bring (at a bare minimum): Helmet (full face and short), gloves and jacket. I have a skull bucket just for test ride so you ears are open which allows you to see sounds better, much easier to spot odd sounds! Bring a flash-light to examine hard to see places like brake pads or the bottom of the bike (when checking for cracks, leaks, scrapes, etc.). Bring a pair of latex gloves too. Do not forget to bring the KBB/NADA values you printed earlier if the seller was asking too much!
>>> IF you will be doing a test ride and your (or the mechanic's) initial inspection checked out:
- Make sure the oil level is good and oil looks good (no odd colors, burnt smell or foaming).
- Check the gas levels and also gas tank to see if there is any rust.
- Check all the light, including the brake/stop lights.
- Check the tires, ask when the last time they were replaced regardless of how the threads look. Shy away from test riding/buying if the threads are really low or the tires are 4+ years old.
- Ride the bike around a bit to get adjusted but even for a few minutes, take it on the freeway and go at fast as legally allowed to see if the bike wobbles, overheats, leaks, make any odd noises, etc.
I know some advised against not test riding a used bike but much like buying a new bike/car, I would NEVER buy a vehicle then I can NOT test ride! If the seller is not letting me, I don't even go to check the bike out.
Exception to this rule is; a project/parts bike, which means I already knew its condition.
Final recommendation: Do NOT rush into buying, do not get emotional and take your time! There are ton of bikes out there for sale and the more you look more and better ones you will find, guaranteed!
You do not want to make a big mistake and buy a bike that is not fit for the road or one that will spend more time in a shop then being ridden.
Good luck and be safe!
Last edited by TurcoLoco; 04-19-2013 at 11:15 AM..
I have to disagree about using NADA and/or KBB ~ both were founded and cater exclusively to the banking and insurance industries. Neither have even the slightest bearing on real world pricing. I routinely buy under "trade-in" (low) value, do a little work and then sell that exact same vehicle above "retail" (high) values.
Local market value is all that matters. Yup, completed ebay auctions help ~ but they're not always indicative of your Local pricing. As an example, when I lived in Colorado (2 years ago) I bought a Kawasaki KLR650. Lots and LOTS of them available, I found a clean, running, needs nothing (including tires, that's rare) example with 8k miles that I paid $900 for. Moved to Georgia, found that I wasn't riding that bike and listed it for sale according to the local market... I sold the bike for $3800 with 13k miles. It's not magic, and while I bought at a good price, it wasn't the best (I ran into a few others who bought similar for cheaper). I also didn't have issues selling as I priced it about $400 less than what the "going" price on Craigslist said.
Which proves the point, know your local market. It's just that NADA and KBB haven't been accurate in any of the 5 regions I've lived since 2000 when I started seriously pursuing motorcycle mechanics.
All the rest of the above post though, great additions. Clearly, lots of personal preference. Don't know why I forgot to post this before, but it's been a guide that's frequently used for used-bike buying:
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