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French classes are free or nearly free for almost anyone coming here. If you're not going to put in an effort to feel at home, you'll never feel at home...
Lots of people feel they shouldn't have to put in any effort at all in order to feel at home.
I would base my decision solely on what job prospects you have. If you think you can get a similar job and salary in Montreal compared to Toronto and that the job is in English than go ahead and move. Also you should consider if further down the road the career opportunities look similar in Montreal and Toronto than you should move to Montreal. There is no question that for a family with young kids with the same income Montreal is a cheaper place to live.
As you already figured out Montreal is more run down and less maintained than Toronto but the difference is not that great.
Don't worry about French, once you get here you can get into French classes and learn the language. Plenty of immigrants like you arrive in Montreal with very little French and manage to learn it. There many different venues where you can get free or cheap French classes for new immigrants.
I would base my decision solely on what job prospects you have. If you think you can get a similar job and salary in Montreal compared to Toronto and that the job is in English than go ahead and move. Also you should consider if further down the road the career opportunities look similar in Montreal and Toronto than you should move to Montreal. There is no question that for a family with young kids with the same income Montreal is a cheaper place to live.
As you already figured out Montreal is more run down and less maintained than Toronto but the difference is not that great.
Don't worry about French, once you get here you can get into French classes and learn the language. Plenty of immigrants like you arrive in Montreal with very little French and manage to learn it. There many different venues where you can get free or cheap French classes for new immigrants.
I actually wouldn't make such a big deal about the language if this wasn't a primarily Anglo-American forum. People in most parts of the world don't make a big deal about moving to a place where the language is different. But somehow just because Montreal is on this landmass it's a huge deal if you can't live there as you would in Omaha, Nebraska.
I actually wouldn't make such a big deal about the language if this wasn't a primarily Anglo-American forum. People in most parts of the world don't make a big deal about moving to a place where the language is different. But somehow just because Montreal is on this landmass it's a huge deal if you can't live there as you would in Omaha, Nebraska.
The OP is an immigrant so he is not asking the question from the same perspective as an Anglo-American. Most probably neither English or French is his first language.
The OP is an immigrant so he is not asking the question from the same perspective as an Anglo-American. Most probably neither English or French is his first language.
Depends on how long they've been in Toronto and (especially) how much the prevailing mindset has rubbed off on them.
Not that any of this is really a big deal, but it is what it is...
In spite of the initial reservations, I would recommend looking at other Ontario cities like Ottawa, London, Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge, Hamilton, Guelph, Kingston, etc.
If those seem like good ideas, then do Winnipeg and Edmonton also make sense since they'd be bigger than most of those?
My 2 cents having spent 4 years in Montreal.
Montreal is a great city and if you have a good job you will be just fine. You just need to learn some french, what is wrong with it? One additional language will only enrich you.
That being said, think about the following:
Say you land a good job, you learn some french and everything is going great.
However, one day you might want/have to change job and it may be difficult to find something equivalent: there are not many (good = well-paid) job opportunities in Montreal IMHO.
Montreal is great, a real melting pot and once you get some french, you will experience something unique you won't find anywhere else. Unfortunately, once you get out of the city (unless it is west island or south shore) you are in Quebec 100% and it will be totally different, nothing even close to Montreal. Not sure you will like it, I did not.
I work in IT and most of the people I know left Montreal or wanted to move to Ottawa, Toronto, Edmonton, Vancouver.
My 2 cents having spent 4 years in Montreal.
Montreal is a great city and if you have a good job you will be just fine. You just need to learn some french, what is wrong with it? One additional language will only enrich you.
That being said, think about the following:
Say you land a good job, you learn some french and everything is going great.
However, one day you might want/have to change job and it may be difficult to find something equivalent: there are not many (good = well-paid) job opportunities in Montreal IMHO.
Montreal is great, a real melting pot and once you get some french, you will experience something unique you won't find anywhere else. Unfortunately, once you get out of the city (unless it is west island or south shore) you are in Quebec 100% and it will be totally different, nothing even close to Montreal. Not sure you will like it, I did not.
I work in IT and most of the people I know left Montreal or wanted to move to Ottawa, Toronto, Edmonton, Vancouver.
If this is what you're saying, I doubt that a person coming outside Quebec and settling in Montreal will ever have to extend their job search outside the city and its metro area.
So their interactions with Quebec outside of Montreal (whether they like the rest of the province or not) would be limited to excursions for a cabane à sucre, skiing, weekends in Quebec City, etc.
Not much more than that. So no big deal really.
On the other hand, it is true that even in Montreal, someone with low French skills might find job mobility is limited once they "max out" at the position they arrived to take in the first place. Which probably explains a good chunk of the out-migration you describe to other parts of Canada.
Depends on the field. Hardware electrical engineering is disappearing from the landscape, but software is really strong. Medical research and data analysis on medical research is doing well too, especially with the new MUHC. In terms of opportunities overall and opportunities for advancement, GTA should offer more no doubt. But then again, what's the point if your cost of living takes a big leap accordingly. Everything needs to be weighed...
One thing I would like to mention is that, when looking for a job around Montreal, the government of Quebec's job site requires employers to state French fluency as a requirement. That may not actually be the case. When my employer was looking for someone to communicate with clients in the USA, we couldn't only list English as a requirement. I would apply for jobs that seem like a good fit regardless of stated language requirements.
Depends on the field. Hardware electrical engineering is disappearing from the landscape, but software is really strong. Medical research and data analysis on medical research is doing well too, especially with the new MUHC. In terms of opportunities overall and opportunities for advancement, GTA should offer more no doubt. But then again, what's the point if your cost of living takes a big leap accordingly. Everything needs to be weighed...
One thing I would like to mention is that, when looking for a job around Montreal, the government of Quebec's job site requires employers to state French fluency as a requirement. That may not actually be the case. When my employer was looking for someone to communicate with clients in the USA, we couldn't only list English as a requirement. I would apply for jobs that seem like a good fit regardless of stated language requirements.
Could be.
Just reporting what I've heard many times though. It's often cited as a reason for leaving Montreal.
Obviously everyone has their own experience.
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