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It's not that I'm not willing to learn French, but the reality is, no one can "effectively" communicate in French before ever moving to a French speaking country.
You don't just take a class and then suddenly be fluent in French.
I just wonder how people ever live in Montreal without being a native French speaker.
I was part of the original French Immersion program in the 1970s, where I went to an English school but had all my classes in French throughout most of my education. I had a good base but really only became truly bilingual once I finished University and got a job where 80% of my day was in French. This will be true for anybody if they really want to do it.
Also, it is probably a good time to differentiate between verbal and written proficiency. I can still speak pretty well even though I haven't lived there in 15 years. Not being a native speaker, I don't think I will ever be able to take advantage of the subtleties of the language. A lot of what I do now requires me to carefully state things in such a way as to get a point across without being misunderstood or insulting. This is a skill that is so important in so many jobs and is one I would not be a good as a Francophone. We have all been in that meeting where a well meaning person from overseas says something that comes as being ridiculous because they don't understand the subtleties of the language.
It depends what kind of jobs you are looking for. There are some american based english speaking companies for which you don't need to know french language at all. Also there exists small businesses in which most of the people speak English fluently.
I was an American student in Montreal for 2007-2012. I learned french fluently while I was there. But before I knew french, I worked in call centers (a lot of them only require english but it's usually sketchy business to business solicitation), restaurants (busboy), and even a cafe with my minimal french at the time. Near McGill and Concordia they were more lenient about if my french was great or not.
Then, even once I graduated, and had fluent french, I found an office job with a successful company (that also had an office in NYC) and all the work was in English. It was an english company. So yeah, it exists, and I'm sure there are many other companies like that in Montreal, you just have to look for them. Of course, during the application process it still said that employees had to know french (and we all did), but the work was in english. Bottom line: yes, go there and learn french while you're there, while working an english job if you can find one. If you cant find one, save up some money, take full time french courses for 3 months, then you'll be fluent.
I'm in Intermediate French Class right now and I am really interested in French (not so much Montreal, per se) and I really want my French skills to be solidified which can only happen if I live in a French speaking city.
I'm 23, so I don't have any commitments and can move places freely, however, I am no longer a student and I do need a full time job to survive.
It's so hard to learn French here. I learn things but if you don't get the opportunity to use what you learn I forget it so fast! And understanding spoken French is the real killer. I can understand written French so well, but as soon as they speak 10 miles a minute I can't understand.
I've lived in Montreal all my life and never really became fully billingual. I can get by day to day, such as ordering food in french and so on. But finding a job in Montreal that doesn't rquire French is very hard to find. I personally plan on moving to Ottawa once I finish my cheap schooling here There are a few places around Montreal where you can get by without french. Pharmaceutical companies on the west island are about forty percent english as well as the FedEx and UPS out there. The airport is also a good place to try. My cousin worked for Air Canada unloading planes and what not and said a lot of the people were english.
Hey!!
Quebecers are subsidizing your education so you can bugger off once you're done?
Aside from the obvious that you are pointing out here, I also have to shake my head at people who would rather physically move out of their own city (assuming the poster actually likes living in Montreal) as opposed to polishing up their French to an employable level.
I mean, I never ever hear people say "I am moving from Toronto to Montreal because I don't want to learn English sufficiently to get a job..."
I also never hear this about Hungarian in Budapest, Italian in Rome or Polish in Warsaw.
At least not from people who profess to love a given city, like I sometimes do for Montreal: "I l absolutely love the city but I can't deal with the French so I am moving to Ottawa, or Toronto, or Calgary."
Aside from the obvious that you are pointing out here, I also have to shake my head at people who would rather physically move out of their own city (assuming the poster actually likes living in Montreal) as opposed to polishing up their French to an employable level.
I mean, I never ever hear people say "I am moving from Toronto to Montreal because I don't want to learn English sufficiently to get a job..."
I also never hear this about Hungarian in Budapest, Italian in Rome or Polish in Warsaw.
At least not from people who profess to love a given city, like I sometimes do for Montreal: "I l absolutely love the city but I can't deal with the French so I am moving to Ottawa, or Toronto, or Calgary."
I've never understood this mentality. I envy people who grew up here and had the opportunity to become 100% bilingual to the point that they can think and operate in both languages simultaneously. To pass up that opportunity is to me, an incredible waste.
Even though English is the International language you are still limiting yourself to a half-dozen or so countries if you remain unilingual English speaking. I read an article in the Economist a few years back that explained how British university grads were being eaten alive in the job market by continental Europeans. Reason being was that Brits were almost always unilingual English speakers while their counterparts from the continent were fluent in 3 or 4 languages as well as English. When all else was equal, guess who got the job?
Us Anglos seem to think that, because we can get by in English while on vacation, everybody speaks English. Beyond the tourist spots they generally don't and if you want to move to a non English speaking country you had better be prepared to learn the local language. Which brings up the subject of 'people who move to Quebec then complain about having to learn French' but...
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
Aside from the obvious that you are pointing out here, I also have to shake my head at people who would rather physically move out of their own city (assuming the poster actually likes living in Montreal) as opposed to polishing up their French to an employable level.
I mean, I never ever hear people say "I am moving from Toronto to Montreal because I don't want to learn English sufficiently to get a job..."
I also never hear this about Hungarian in Budapest, Italian in Rome or Polish in Warsaw.
At least not from people who profess to love a given city, like I sometimes do for Montreal: "I l absolutely love the city but I can't deal with the French so I am moving to Ottawa, or Toronto, or Calgary."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habfanman
I've never understood this mentality. I envy people who grew up here and had the opportunity to become 100% bilingual to the point that they can think and operate in both languages simultaneously. To pass up that opportunity is to me, an incredible waste.
Even though English is the International language you are still limiting yourself to a half-dozen or so countries if you remain unilingual English speaking. I read an article in the Economist a few years back that explained how British university grads were being eaten alive in the job market by continental Europeans. Reason being was that Brits were almost always unilingual English speakers while their counterparts from the continent were fluent in 3 or 4 languages as well as English. When all else was equal, guess who got the job?
Us Anglos seem to think that, because we can get by in English while on vacation, everybody speaks English. Beyond the tourist spots they generally don't and if you want to move to a non English speaking country you had better be prepared to learn the local language. Which brings up the subject of 'people who move to Quebec then complain about having to learn French' but...
To further the point, imagine this situation (mine):
The last 12 years that I lived in Montreal (1992-2004), I worked for an American-based company. I was living in Westmount (many English speakers) and, at work, I was talking to people from New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc... all day. I didn't use any of my (albeit limited) high school French. Then I moved to the States and definitely didn't hear or speak French. Then I got divorced and came home. I have almost no French vocabulary and can't string together a proper sentence in French.
Had I not worked for an American company for 12 years -- but, rather, worked in an environment where people DID speak French -- I would have left for the States with a much more solid knowledge of French that I would likely not have lost, even during my 9 years in the States.
My point is that even if you happen to find a job where French is not required, you're not likely to stay in that job for the rest of your life. Think ahead; look to the future. If you're going to live here, learn French.
if you want to move to a non English speaking country you had better be prepared to learn the local language. Which brings up the subject of 'people who move to Quebec then complain about having to learn French' but...
Except that to many people Quebec is not a non English speaking country.
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There are a few places around Montreal where you can get by without french. Pharmaceutical companies on the west island are about forty percent english as well as the FedEx and UPS out there. The airport is also a good place to try. My cousin worked for Air Canada unloading planes and what not and said a lot of the people were english.
