Locating Property For Sale? (Billings, Livingston: houses, buying, camping)

[rambrush]

Just a side note: In Deer Lodge County they have a department that handles all things related to septic tanks.
In our case we were near a seasonal runoff pond, close to a ravine etc. So we could not do a normal septic and leach field.
So it was determined that we could go with a system that was not buried as deep and leach field was designed to fit the area we had to work with.
Then we needed a 100 foot? separation from well and septic.
As for the well for water, some folks in our subdivision have natural springs that run year around and they use that water source after having it tested.
Then when we were ready for our well we contacted local well drillers and only one was willing to travel 8 miles off the paved road to take a look at what we required.
Keep in mind our piece of Big Sky Country is very rocky and required a drill rig that could bore through anything in its path. (think not cheap)
When you locate your piece of heaven you are interested in, take the county and address provided and input the info over to this website.

Montana Cadastral

It will advise who the owner is and property details. If the owner is listed as living way back east the property maybe on market because its getting to difficult to travel cross country to there summer retreat.

[Sunbiz1]

Thank you again everyone, lots of helpful information has been supplied.

I will be referencing these links and maps throughout the Fall/Winter as I make contacts and develop a property list to visit. I'm sure I am not the only one who has exhaustively researched cost of drilling etc., and therefore do not expect the search to be an easy one.

Regards,

J

[Reziac]

Speaking as one who after 7 or 8 years of searching is finally finished with this "find real estate" nonsense (YAY!) and became painfully familiar with the rural MT land market and the Cadastral....

Anything you see on Landwatch is there because it's junk property (or is overpriced for what it is) and will be tough to sell to anyone who knows the area. There are occasional exceptions but that's a very good rule of thumb. Anything listed as "Three Forks" (Ponderosa Pines) by Tony Novotny can be safely regarded as "recreational" without further investigation: No power (cuz it will cost you $75,000/mile to bring in, and that's what I was quoted by the power company!), very bad roads much of the year (deep mud once you get off the single maintained county road; snow is less of an issue), and very few producing wells (but many 700 foot deep dry holes; you generally don't hit water til you get down level with the riverbed).

Once you think you've found a lot, don't rely on the realtor; his job is to sell you something, not make sure you bought the right place. Talk to neighbors, the local fire department (if any), and the county dept. that deals with septics and wells (they will often know the exact spot you're talking about).

[oldtrader]

Unless in one of the valleys near a river, you will probably be one of those that hauls water. That is why you see so many pickups with a permanent 350 or so gallon tank mounted in the back, to haul water to go into your cistern/holding tank which has to be buried deep enough that it does not freeze, or in a room in the house. Three tanks a week as larger families need is $20 to $25 per week to buy it and then haul it home.

We are lucky, there is a hard pan over an acquirer that is only 35 feet down. Our well is 60 feet so if there is ever a time of drought we will be far enough down we should be O.K. if the water level drops some.

[Reziac]

Yeah, the number of such mini-tanker-trucks (and trailers) you see is a fair indicator of the water situation in a given area.

Where there's water but no power, you can run your pump off a diesel generator or possibly a windmill, but I don't think that would be my first choice.

[MTSilvertip]

Lot of area north of Reedpoint and over to Roundup that is REALLY dry. My parent's had a place near Winnett that had a well, but it was 1200 feet deep and the water wasn't great. It wouldn't kill you, but had an awful oder.

If there isn't power, you can use windmills or solar in many areas of the state, but they're expensive and you need a bank of batteries capable of holding at least 3 days worth of your normal usage, plus a generator backup to charge the batteries when there is a storm blocking the sun or calm when there's no wind.
Or you could just have a battery bank and use a gas or diesel generator to charge up the bank every 3 or 4 days for much less initial cost and a lot better reliability.

One major problem with wind here is that we don't have the steady 16 MPH average flow that is required for windmills to operate at their optimum. We get no wind and winds of 70 MPH blasts that can blow for days that burn out bushings and tear your machine apart.
For solar, we are a long way from the equator so because of our angle we only get "full sun" during the summer when we have long days. In the winter when you need power most we only have 8 hours of daylight, not enough to power a normal system, so you need more cells to get the same amount of power you get during the summer by compensating extra cells for the shorter days.

It can be done, but the person doing it better know the local conditions and weather patterns.

[rambrush]

This summer was my first with solar power, bought the system parts and pieces through a place on the west side of Missoula. As I am pretty handy I did the install myself, but would not recommend others to do the install themselves.
At my location in June and July early August the sun came up very early and stayed until around 10pm. very long days of sunlight. Then it started tapering off until sun was not up till 7am or so and dark by 530pm. So have to agree with MTSILVERTIP on short winter days.
Then we had several days of marginal sun and the construction tools had to be run by generator while system recharged.
Our system only required (6) 270w panels but they suggested we go with 9 for added charging while we were doing things so that's the direction we took. We also went with AGM batteries as we were not going to be there during the winter months.
I mounted the panels on a south facing roof with risers to get close to 40 deg angle. Putting a post in the ground with a tracker would have been ideal but keep in mind we are 8 miles off the pavement and a hole for the pole to support the panels would require a rock drill.
So keep that in mind as well.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by MTSilvertip

Lot of area north of Reedpoint and over to Roundup that is REALLY dry. My parent's had a place near Winnett that had a well, but it was 1200 feet deep and the water wasn't great. It wouldn't kill you, but had an awful oder.

That's a serious well. They didn't dig that with a pick and shovel!

I had a neighbor in the SoCal desert who tried to hand-dig a well. He made it down around 100 feet before he gave up, and it took him a couple years to get that far (pretty good for an 80 year old dude!) Water is at 270 feet so he had a ways to go ... in calici that's like digging through solid rock. On the plus side, it didn't need any shoring, the shaft was hard as concrete.

[historyfan]

Water & power are the reasons to purchase an existing homestead rather than raw undeveloped land.

There have been people living in permanent dwellings in Montana for 150 years. If no one built a house on spot where you now want to plunk one--there is a reason--lack of available water. People can build and live anywhere, if price is of no object.

[Sunbiz1]

Originally Posted by historyfan

Water & power are the reasons to purchase an existing homestead rather than raw undeveloped land.

There have been people living in permanent dwellings in Montana for 150 years. If no one built a house on spot where you now want to plunk one--there is a reason--lack of available water. People can build and live anywhere, if price is of no object.

Not sure if you're still here but:

You're right, and not just in Montana. To simplify matters, I am now focusing on at least partially developed rural land.