Building a Cabin or Home? (Helena, Thompson Falls: insurance, homes, buying)

[Dizzydog]

Originally Posted by Clark Fork Fantast

Dizzydog, we're building a cabin on the ID-MT border, and our builder is trying his best to dissuade us from building a log home. He says we'll have endless problems over the years. So instead we're probably going to do a hybrid timber frame/conventional cabin, maybe with one modest log accent wall if the log yearning proves too strong! Just make sure the roof is built for snow, and that it doesn't dump all the snow at your front door! Have fun with the planning and building!

Enjoy the house! I look forward to seeing the pics.

[MTSilvertip]

Originally Posted by Clark Fork Fantast

Dizzydog, we're building a cabin on the ID-MT border, and our builder is trying his best to dissuade us from building a log home. He says we'll have endless problems over the years. So instead we're probably going to do a hybrid timber frame/conventional cabin, maybe with one modest log accent wall if the log yearning proves too strong! Just make sure the roof is built for snow, and that it doesn't dump all the snow at your front door! Have fun with the planning and building!

I have to take issue with that statement from your builder. The main difference between log construction and the modern light frame construction is time and labor.

A Log house requires more materials as you can't just cover 4x8 sections of 2x4s with fiberweld, you have to actually handle the logs, fit them and use some skill.
Modern lightweight construction is quick to put together, and is more profitable as most of the parts such as the gables are pre made somewhere else so all the builder has to do is put them in place and tack them down with a nail gun.
They can slap a frame house together in very little time. A log house is much more labor intensive so the profit margin is much smaller.

That being said, a properly constructed log house will last just as long if not longer than a frame house. The big thing is a log home doesn't have siding so you have to make sure and keep it well protected with eaves and water seal.
Any home's longevity is going to depend on maintenance and upkeep, and the fact a log home does flex is a factor that demands that the builder have the skills necessary to actually work in log.
Most builders these days build from a kit, few will actually use real log, but the fact remains that a log house is more labor intensive and more skill is required than for a frame structure.

If your builder is dead set against you building with log, it just may be he doesn't have the skill set to do it right.

JMHO from having bult several homes and buildings using just about every technique.

Good Luck.

[Klapton]

Take a look at these homes:

Student log homes | Log Home Builders Association

These will all outlast most homes of ANY construction method. AND they will have little to no maintenance beyond cosmetics.

When people warn you against "log homes" they are warning you about giant dowel homes, not real log homes.

[Dizzydog]

Originally Posted by Klapton

Take a look at these homes:

Student log homes | Log Home Builders Association

These will all outlast most homes of ANY construction method. AND they will have little to no maintenance beyond cosmetics.

When people warn you against "log homes" they are warning you about giant dowel homes, not real log homes.

Pretty sure you made this post already on the first page. Pretty sure you work for them now!

$1100 to take a weekend class, we get it.

[Klapton]

Originally Posted by Dizzydog

Pretty sure you made this post already on the first page. Pretty sure you work for them now!

$1100 to take a weekend class, we get it.

I don't work for them. I'm a satisfied customer of said class.

By all means, build a crappy kit home out of milled logs. Try to seal them to keep water out, and watch it rot anyway. Watch your windows and doors break and buckle from settling. Go into your basement or crawlspace every year and lower the roof jacks so your roof will stay connected to your house.

NONE of these things are necessary when a home is built of whole logs using the tight-pinned butt and pass method. And it is simple enough that you actually CAN learn how to do it in one weekend.

Or you can listen to builders who have never bothered to learn what they are actually talking about.

Do whatever you want. But these people who think they know something about log homes don't know what they are talking about. THAT's why I posted again.

[ScottyDM]

Originally Posted by Clark Fork Fantast

Dizzydog, we're building a cabin on the ID-MT border, and our builder is trying his best to dissuade us from building a log home. He says we'll have endless problems over the years. So instead we're probably going to do a hybrid timber frame/conventional cabin, maybe with one modest log accent wall if the log yearning proves too strong! Just make sure the roof is built for snow, and that it doesn't dump all the snow at your front door! Have fun with the planning and building!

First observation: If you really want a log home, then maybe you have the wrong builder. Get a new builder.

Second observation: What is a "conventional cabin"? Okay, maybe that means stick-built. The lowest common denominator for general contractors. Anybody can do stick-built.

As MTSilvertip said, modern construction techniques are designed for minimal labor cost. In other words, modern techniques and materials are a building contractor's dream. Consider wooden I-beams. They cost more than solid wood, but since all are the same size, and they don't split or warp, they save a lot of time on the construction site.

Originally Posted by Klapton

Take a look at these homes:

Student log homes | Log Home Builders Association

These will all outlast most homes of ANY construction method. AND they will have little to no maintenance beyond cosmetics.

When people warn you against "log homes" they are warning you about giant dowel homes, not real log homes.

There is so much wrong with your post it isn't funny. Now what's right are the beautiful photos. Hand-built log homes made from unmilled logs can be a thing of beauty.

Are unmilled logs are structurally superior to milled logs? Not if both have the same moisture content. If you have your own well-treed land then it's daft to buy milled logs. And so much lumber today is cut and milled green. I once talked to a timber framer who bragged about his green lumber. "It'll shrink and all the joints will tighten up." Riiiiight. What it'll do is shrink and twist and the interior wall finish will crack and pop.

So cut your own logs, stack 'em up off the ground and let 'em sit for a year, then trim and shape and fit them into your walls. Some milled logs also use seasoned wood.

"These will all outlast most homes of ANY construction method." Wow, is that a complete falsehood. Stone homes have lasted 2500 years and longer. There are whole timber frame villages in Europe that are still in use 500 years after they were built. And modern concrete homes should last at least as long. Now will a log home outlast a stick-built home? Only if you provide the necessary periodic maintenance. The truth is, most log homes are gone within a century, and almost all of those because they were abandoned and so the maintenance didn't happen. Stick-built homes don't last any better without maintenance.

"AND they will have little to no maintenance beyond cosmetics." While modern materials have eliminated the annual necessity to completely rechink your log walls, they still require considerably more maintenance than almost any other construction technique. And if you get rot, termites, or carpenter ants in the bottom course of your logs, heaven help you.

As the logs shrink and settle, you might need maintenance for your modern chinking and the fit of your doors and windows, even if you did them right. If you used green logs, you most certainly will need annual maintenance for the first few years. Even when protected from direct rainfall, bare wood erodes over time, plus flying termites zero in on uncoated wood. You must keep an unbroken film on your wood, be it linseed oil or something more modern. End grain is the hardest to keep sealed and stacked log walls have a lot of exposed end grain.


The greatest charm of log building is that it doesn't require an engineering degree or power equipment in order to throw up a quick shelter. Now in today's world we all want a certified analysis before we try anything, so we have classes in building with logs, or adobe, or dry-laid stone walls.

Given forested land and the desire to create a clearing in which to grow crops, the log cabin is the finest possible solution. The problem comes when what we really want is the charm of a log cabin, but with 2800 square feet of luxury living that includes three-and-a-half baths and a breakfast nook. While log construction can be forced into that role, it's not the best fit.

Dizzydog turned us on to a new type of synthetic log made by Everlogs (scroll back a page). IMO the round logs look like crap, but the "hand hewn" logs look pretty convincing. While useless to the back-to-nature fan, Everlogs will give you that 2800 square feet of luxury living in an R-19 shell, and I bet the maintenance is less than most other wall materials.

Dizzy, I mentioned Everlogs to my wife and she indicated she's not wild about the log cabin look. But I still want to stop by that home in Larkspur.

S~

[Dizzydog]

Klaptoon- I appreciate the info but again, not interested in taking the class or building my own home. Will probably end up going with a stick built with log accents.

Scotty- love to hear your feedback on that house. In their ad they said their homes average $150sf

[ScottyDM]

Dizzy, apparently that house is for sale and empty. Found a web page on it. Note that they specifically mention EverLogs in the 4th paragraph.

That home is a palace. It sits on a golf course and is half-way between Colorado Springs and Denver, right where the folks who want to be in the "country side" want to live, but don't want too much of a commute into work. In other words, premium land. The home is over 10,000 square feet and they're asking just under $4,000,000. This works out to $400 per square foot, but I suspect it features an upscale interior.

Of course I don't care about any of that. I just want to see what EverLogs look like up close.


So, you've decided not to use EverLogs?

[Dizzydog]

yea unfortunately that home is not EXACTLY what we are looking for. LOL

a tad out of our budget!

[ScottyDM]

12:43 am and I'm at a hotel in Great Falls, MT.

Tried to find that fancy EverLogs home in Larkspur, CO. When I found the right exit, it led straight into Yogi Bear's Campground and didn't seem to be a public street at all. So I never did find that home. It's possible the road is gravel that leads past the main Yogi building. I'll give it another shot next Wednesday when I'm back in Colorado. It looks like there's a paved frontage road that comes from a more northerly exit.

Thus far my observation about Montana is: They sure do love their fireworks here! Just about every little village with at least 20 houses had a show. Either that or Montana folks have easy access to some big-ass rockets. And here in Great Falls there were continual sky explosions, some quite large, up until about 12:30. Oh, and I could see the fireworks from about 12 miles before I got to city limits.

S~