Mall of America vs Nicollet Mall (Edina, Dayton: sales, lease, crime)

[urbanologist]

It seems that Mall of America is building it's 2nd phase to once again become the nation's largest mall. It also appears that Nicollet has lost some of it's retail. This a sign of it going down hill? What is new up there? Has MOA's expansion been taking retail away from downtown? Circle Centre in downtown Indy has struggled a bit after losing it's Nordstrom anchor store to the Fashion Mall (a suburban mall) but managed to refill the space. Parisians on the north end was eventually replaced by Carson's. How is the retail scene doing in downtown MPLS. Obviously, you would need a vibrant downtown to keep the stores open. Indy and MPLS seem to do this well when it comes to maintaining an active pedestrian traffic flow in both downtowns to keep retail alive. However, the suburban malls and the out door life style centers don't make it easy for maintaining downtown retail.

[iNviNciBL3]

Shopping at malls and strip malls is more easy and efficient than shopping in a downtown retail stores and main street shops so its not really a fair battle.

[uptown_urbanist]

Downtown is actually pretty vibrant these days, but the retail scene is not. I don't think MOA's expansion is having an impact on downtown. Probably the bigger bite has come from online sales and other retail stores elsewhere -- including MOA and the other malls, but not exclusively so.

The downtown population has been increasing dramatically, so it wouldn't be surprising to see a change in retail in the coming years, too. Already there seem to be more boutique-y type retail stores around, but they are mostly not located in the downtown business core.

[queenswake]

I don't know if downtown will ever return to its heyday of retail offerings. People just shop differently now -- especially the young people moving downtown. It's all online ordering or runs to Target. So many people are literally getting an Amazon box at their doorstep every other day now.

But I think retail will return within 10 years or so as downtown redevelopment really gets going. The upcoming Nicollet Mall renovation will be underway soon and while that in itself is not revolutionary, it maybe the thing that sparks other things to start happening. Getting people out of the sidwalks and down to the street. And with the new football stadium and surrounding redevelopment, there is a lot of surface parking lots and old buildings that can be turned into other things.

It's what we've all been waiting for and I sure hope it comes. You hear our parents and grandparents talk about how much of a big deal it was to go "downtown" shopping. It was exciting and full of wonder. It would be nice to return to some semblance of that.

[PeachSalsa]

The typical suburban shopping family will not drive downtown, find parking, pay for parking, etc. for routine shopping.

They will drive to MOA or Ridgedale or Southdale, park for free, and shop and eat.

The exception might be the holiday season, since Macy's has the 8th floor display (although that has steadily gone downhill since the Dayton's days), the various holiday theater shows, what used to be the Hollidazzle (WHY did they change a successful thing?)

I just find that MOA and the other shopping centers are much more user friendly.

[uptown_urbanist]

The "typical" suburban family may not, but the key to downtown retail will, I think, not be that demographic. If downtown has 70,000 residents (which is the goal I've seen recently) as well as all the employees who work there, then the shopping dollars of suburban families may not matter so much.

[rzzzz]

There's no good reason to go to Nicollet mall for shopping these days. I'm not sure there is a good reason to go there for any other reason, either. There are some interesting shops in the north loop area, though. I predict that is where new retail will continue to be introduced.

[Mason3000]

UU makes some really good points about downtown residents potentially causing an uptick in retail purchases, but Amazon has changed the game & then there's the thing no one's talking about. Crime. Specifically poor Blacks & homeless people everywhere. Even the new downtown residents don't want to venture over onto Nicolett Mall. They want to stay in their hip, White, North Loop. Until the crime problem, specifically large groups of young Black males is addressed, people aren't going to see it as a fun place to relax & spend the day shopping.

[rzzzz]

The lack of stores is probably a larger detriment to the shopping experience than the black people.

[Steve Bowen]

It seems like the relatively high cost of downtown retail space precludes the profitable sale of most types of products or services. Ultimately it's all about the number of dollars per square foot above your lease you can squeeze out of a retail space. Breaking even in retail space downtown typically means selling luxury goods, expensive boutiquey apparel, $100 sports jerseys, $200 european shoes, etc. The fact that you don't see a bunch of low-margin businesses opening in Nicollet Mall, and/or that a bunch of them have closed doesn't necessarily mean that there is a problem there.

With the outstanding economy of the Twin Cities, I suspect it's just a matter of time before a bunch of design-oriented entrepreneurs that have ben priced out of the coasts show up and create the kind of impractical overpriced boutiques that have afflicted the West Coast for decades. There are certainly people in the Twin Cities with the money to pay for it. And people that know what they're doing can create a luxurious urban experience that Edina can't replicate.