Looking for any SF Bay Area transplants in the Twin Cities! (Minneapolis: middle-class, to rent)

[camamaofthree]

[SIZE=3]We are a family of five living in Oakland, California considering a move to Minneapolis St. Paul. Our youngest will be starting kindergarten in the fall. We have extended family there and are feeling overwhelmed by the cost of living here.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]While many of our friends have already left the Bay Area to be closer to family or for work opportunities, we are feeling a little tentative about starting over. We are both teachers and bilingual in Spanish and English. I am a general elementary classroom teacher and hope to go back to the classroom in the next year or two. My husband, originally from Argentina, has 20 years experience and works with general and special needs students in physical education and Adapted Physical Education. He has a great job here which would be hard to leave. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]From what I’ve read and conversations I’ve had, it seems like there could be great opportunities for us there and the cost of living would be substantially less - primarily housing. Our children are bilingual, but we don’t have many bilingual school opportunities here. I’ve been reading this forum and it’s been very helpful. I’m wondering if there is anyone who has relocated recently and can give us some feedback – advice, regrets, whatever! Thank you![/SIZE]

[uptown_urbanist]

We lived for two years in San Francisco, then relocated back to Minneapolis (I'm from here originally, and my husband spent much of his childhood here). There are times when I really miss San Francisco, but I definitely DON'T miss the cost (and related stress) -- one of our primary reasons for moving. Housing is so much more affordable here, as are things like preschools, and just things like food and basics (other than fresh produce; that was cheaper in SF). It definitely feels far less international here, although there are pockets of the Twin Cities where you get more of the Bay Area international flavor. I also had some culture shock on the walking thing; even in the most walkable, urban neighborhoods in the Twin Cities people are still far more likely to hop in a car and drive (especially those with kids), while in SF people, even those with kids, were far more likely to walk places. Here it seems like people think you can't walk more than a couple of blocks with a child, and that sometimes drives me crazy. (that's admittedly a very personal pet peeve, so it may or may not bother you!) It was also tough to get used to not having access to the playground in the winter months; I was used to bringing my young son to a playground almost every day, and that's obviously not possible year-round. Also, not sure what it's like in Oakland, but the playground culture doesn't seem as strong here. People go to them, and there are certainly playground regulars, but we don't see the same people all the time like we did in SF. I assume that's because in the Twin Cities most families have access to their own backyard, so the playground is more of a supplement.

Overall, though, I think the Twin Cities is a great place for families, and the cost of living makes it much more possible to take advantage of all those things that we couldn't easily afford while living in SF. There's great children's theater here, for example, and when you're not pumping all of your money into housing then you actually have a shot at taking advantage of it. On the downside, daily living isn't quite as interesting here (for us, anyway) as it was in San Francisco. There we could find fascinating things and lots of access to people and cultures from around the world just by walking out our door, not to mention being able to do things like walk to the beach. On the plus side, we have the lakes and rivers here, the schools are good, there's a thriving cultural scene, and overall it's a wonderful place to live.

[nikonfotog]

OP - I'm in the opposite boat as you. I want to leave the TC for SF. Thought I'd chime in anyway.

There are some good things about the TC, but the biggest thing I would *really* consider if I were you is the weather here. "The weather" may sound somewhat trivial, but it will dictate more of your life than you might realize. We have winter for literally 5-6 straight months (at least Nov through Mar, with Oct and Apr being somewhat volatile). In other words, roughly half the year is winter. And winter in MN is not like winter in CA. Snow and ice on the roads, and below freezing temperatures for days/weeks/months at a time. All the while, everything you see outside hints of death; dead looking trees, nothing is blue, green, or any other color. So...imagine 5-6 straight months of intolerable temperatures, with a landscape of grayness. Unless you go looking for it, signs of normal wildlife (birds, etc) are few and far between.

To put it bluntly, you should think about whether or not you want to spend half of your remaining life in MN winter conditions. It might look cute and cozy in pictures, but it's a little different when you have to live in it. If you're wondering how/why so many people here do it, I would say it's because many/most people here are several generations deep into living here. Anything outside of MN is almost as foreign as another country. But the same could be said of the midwest in general. There's also a sense (albeit pointless) of "toughness" with surviving the winter. I've noticed that east/west coasters are far less averse to moving and relocating, but midwesterners come from a long line of farmers and other simple folk that setup shop someplace and rarely travel more than 50 miles in any direction throughout their lives.

Anyway, back to the weather...the other half of the year here consists of a very brief spring and fall, and a few months of summer. The temps in July/August can near 100F with high humidity. For me, this isn't an issue. Heat and even humidity don't bother me at all. But they do bother many people here, which is understandable considering the temperature was 100 degrees colder just months prior. During the spring/summer, things are more colorful, there is wildlife to be seen (even if it's just a simple bird), etc. For a few months, things feel normal here.

Commuting will probably be a big change for you too. Not just to work, but in leisure too. The TC is very spread out.

If I were you, I would take a short trip here before pulling the trigger on moving. Not in the summer, but in the winter. Spend 2 or 3 days here in January or February. Hotels here are generally cheap.

[uptown_urbanist]

Actually, you'll find lots of fellow Californians here. They manage to put up with the weather. And the Twin Cities are a lot easier to traverse than the Bay Area, in part because you don't have to worry about bridges, and most things are more compact (unless you live way out in the exurbs somewhere; most destinations are pretty central.)

The winter isn't fun, but the summers are much warmer and more humid (don't love that part) and sunnier than in SF, at least SF the city (I know Oakland is sunnier and warmer). I had to get a new summer wardrobe when we relocated back here, as I had little need for summer clothes in SF. Had to get a warmer winter coat, too. Weather is just more extreme all-around. (I don't like the winter here, but DO like that I get a lot more sun, year-round in MN than in SF) On the plus side, no earthquakes! So yes, I will agree that weather should be a consideration, as it does impact all aspects of your life. I don't agree with the "Minnesotans don't know better because they're provincial" argument, but weather does make a bigger difference to some people more than others. I'll put up with winters for the good schools, good cultural amenities, and the high quality of living available at a much lower price point, but for others weather can make the difference between being happy and being miserable. On the other hand, the other major plus of life in MN: all the money you're saving on living means more money for travel! There's nothing like a mid-winter break to somewhere without snow to split up the winter and make it go a bit faster (just got back from one myself. We couldn't have afforded to do that while living in San Francisco.).

[west336]

Okay, camamaofthree, now it's your turn to scare nikonfotog $hitless about moving to San Francisco!

Just kidding! Definitely worth noting, but also DEFINITELY a slightly biased perspective and a dark way of looking at things.

[uptown_urbanist]

I really loved San Francisco, and would have been happy there in the long run. One benefit of living in one of the most expensive cities in the country, though, is that it really makes one appreciate how much more affordable life is elsewhere! I see the posts on here complaining about how expensive Minneapolis is and chuckle. It's all relative. It gets depressing to live in a really expensive city if you can't fully afford it, though, (and to put things into perspective: you can qualify for the set-aside "affordable" housing units in new SF buildings with a three-figure salary), so -- especially if you have kids and have to worry about things like schools and all the expenses that come with children -- places like the Twin Cities can start to look pretty attractive, extreme weather and all. The Bay Area can be a great place for families, but there's no denying that it comes at a huge financial cost. When we left Minneapolis I didn't think we'd move back (I prefer a bigger city), but have definitely come to appreciate the many benefits it does offer, and at a reasonable price at that. We can afford to take advantage of opportunities here that would have been difficult to afford there. I would never say that I live here because of the weather, but overall weather is pretty low on my priority list. Since the OP mentions extended family in the area, presumably they're at least somewhat familiar with the weather issues. And, of course, everyone's priority list is different, not to mention shifts with time and as needs change.

[nikonfotog]

west - I know that SF is not a utopia But for me and what I value, SF would be a great place for me. I also have my eye on a couple other locations.

My post was dark, but it was also honest. It is freezing and comatose here for 5-6 months. That bothers some people more than others (obviously I'm the former).

uptown - if you live in uptown, that may be why you don't agree with my provincial argument. Uptown is a pretty stark contrast to the rest of the TC and MN in general.

To the OP, I would still recommend visiting MN in Jan or Feb to get a real taste of what it's like here :-)

Possible alternatives to MN would be VA Beach (or the surrounding area), or Austin, TX. Both have about the same cost of living as MN without the crippling, crap weather.

[uptown_urbanist]

I would agree that specific location (whether within the Twin Cities or the state) will make all the difference. I would not be in a rush to buy before you've really had a chance to know what you're getting yourself into. I think that advice is relevant to any city, but I think it may be even more relevant here than in some places, perhaps because the possibilities are so open here. If you move somewhere like the Bay Area where geography, cost, and school districts automatically narrow the possibilities quite a bit for most people. Here the typical middle-class family can afford to live practically anywhere (or at least in the general neighborhood; we couldn't afford to buy a house right on Lake Calhoun, for example, but can afford to rent something decent within walking distance.)

I think location, location, location is definitely a major consideration for any potential relocation.

[outofarkansas]

I've lived on the West Coast (Seattle) and now live in the TC. I find there are huge advantages to being here, though I really liked the Pacific Northwest. While winter months can seem difficult, there is a huge "indoor" culture here in the winters that one can really enjoy. Edina has an indoor park, for example. There is a huge indoor water park across from the huge indoor amusement park at Mall of America. In terms of outdoor activities, nearly every neighborhood has sledding hills and a skating rink. On Halloween, which was cold this year, some people in our neighborhood had metal fire pits in their driveways to warm up the trick-or-treaters. The TC has an amazing cultural scene, from theater to festivals in the summer (and one in the winter!) to fantastic bookstores and cafes. The urban parts of Minneapolis/St Paul are also "young" the way Seattle was: young people in fun buildings with creative jobs doing....whatever it is they do. I'm not originally from Minnesota (from Michigan), but neither are many of the people I know in the TC. I miss things about Seattle, but overall I find life here just as interesting and more affordable. I have friends in the Bay Area and I wouldn't want to make the sacrifices they have to make to live there. I'll take colder winters in exchange for affordable living any day.

[camamaofthree]

Thank you for your responses! All valid points and I appreciate the perspectives. Nikonfotog, SF is an amazing place to live - especially when you are single- so I think you should go for it! In terms of raising a family, I hope that we can deal with the winters and find work there. To be continued! All advice and suggestions welcome!