Potential relocation to minnesota - need advice on good schools, good hockey, diversity (Minneapolis: high crime, house)

[sportzgal1277]

Hi,

My hubby lost his job last year; we currently live in Grand Rapids, MI. If he cannot land job in the next few months, we are considering move to MN (where he can seek work in Twin Cities, area). We are an interracial family and are looking for semi-diverse neighborhoods with good schools, within 30-minute commute to Twin Cities. Our 7 year old son, who is African American, is an exceptionally gifted hockey player who absolutely loves the sport, so we also want to find a very good youth hockey program for him. Preferences for our family are to also live in areas where there are lots of lakes for pond hockey. Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

[golfgal]

Keep in mind that "extremely gifted" in many areas of the country won't even make a "C" squad here but if you like hockey you have come to the right place. It is more of a case of where can't you find a good youth hockey program. My oldest is in college and one kid on his floor tried out for their college hockey program-top player from his state, didn't make it past the first day of tryouts.

I would say that Edina and White Bear Lake are probably the top 2 in the metro area for youth development. Both would give fairly easy access to most areas of the metro since you really don't know where he will be working. It would obviously be best to find a job and locate near that area. There will be good youth hockey in all parts of the suburbs-not so much in the cities themselves though. Lakes/ponds/ice rinks are not an issue here. We have 4 within a couple blocks from our house as do most areas in the metro .

[uptown_urbanist]

No need to worry about actual ponds for pond hockey -- everywhere around here has flooded park rinks, too. And there are indeed rinks everywhere.

Edina has good hockey, but it isn't even "semi" diverse. It's white. Very, very, WASP-y white. I'm not sure about White Bear Lake; they are definitely a major hockey town.

I'd find the job first, then find specific location second. A lot of the hockey programs are not school-affiliated, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. There are rinks literally everywhere, both indoors and outdoors (in the winter, anyway). This is serious hockey country.

And while not relevant for you, I wouldn't exactly say that the cities themselves lack good hockey; it just tends not to be in the schools themselves, but believe me, there are some very SERIOUS skaters within city limits, t hey're just not playing for school teams. If you want diverse or even semi-diverse you'll probably want to live in the city or in one of a handful of suburbs.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

No need to worry about actual ponds for pond hockey -- everywhere around here has flooded park rinks, too. And there are indeed rinks everywhere.

Edina has good hockey, but it isn't even "semi" diverse. It's white. Very, very, WASP-y white. I'm not sure about White Bear Lake; they are definitely a major hockey town.

I'd find the job first, then find specific location second. A lot of the hockey programs are not school-affiliated, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. There are rinks literally everywhere, both indoors and outdoors (in the winter, anyway). This is serious hockey country.

And while not relevant for you, I wouldn't exactly say that the cities themselves lack good hockey; it just tends not to be in the schools themselves, but believe me, there are some very SERIOUS skaters within city limits, t hey're just not playing for school teams. If you want diverse or even semi-diverse you'll probably want to live in the city or in one of a handful of suburbs.

I disagree-the suburbs are significantly more diverse then the city dwellers realize and are going to be as diverse as most areas in MI outside of Detroit. Even in the so called "Lily White" places that really don't exist anywhere anymore you are NOT going to have issues with racism, etc. At 7 years old, NO kid is playing for a school team which is why I brought up the issue of having PROGRAMS available.

Honestly, if you want the best hockey in the state, look toward the Iron Range and not the Twin Cities.

[uptown_urbanist]

No, I don't think they're going to encounter issues with racism, and never said that they would. But take a look around Edina: it's only "diverse" if you have a very low bar. A very white place doesn't mean racism, of course, and I have never suggested that. But, if the poster places a premium on diversity, she's not going to find that in a place like Edina, even if it's "only" 90% white these days. Overall, though, I do think the Twin Cities are not hung up on race, so I agree that you're unlikely to encounter problems anywhere. If, on the other hand, you want to live in a neighborhood where your neighbors are more likely to come from a wide range of racial/ethnic backgrounds, you'll find that more in some areas than in others. To be fair, it's not just the "suburbs" (and some suburbs are VERY diverse, the most diverse in the state), as there are some neighborhoods in the core cities that are also up there in the 90% white range.

True, I wasn't thinking that this child is seven. In which case there are decent hockey programs in the city, too. I'm not exactly sure why you believe that not to be the case, or why you think that a child living in, say, Minneapolis, can't drive two miles away and skate at a different rink. I was a serious skater (figure skating, though) for years, and skated at a variety of rinks depending on ice time, mostly Edina, Golden Valley, Brooklyn Park, Minneapolis, and sometimes St. Louis Park. If you start skating seriously, whether hockey of figure skating, you get to know all the rinks in the Twin Cities, whether due to practices, games, whatever.

Basically, I think the first step is to find the job, and to realize that they can find a great hockey program anywhere in the Twin Cities. Might as well find the job first, then work from there, comfortable in the knowledge that there are rinks everywhere, hockey is everywhere, and that their son will have no problems finding access to some quality hockey programs.

[ETA: To the OP -- I moved this from the Minnesota forum since it sounded like you were focusing specifically on the Twin Cities area, but we can move it back if you want advice on all regions of the state.]

[need_some_sun]

I can't comment on Hockey as my kids don't play, but my kids are bi-racial. I have two boys 8 and 11. Their dad is African American and I am white. We live in Shakopee. It is about as diverse as you get! You have Russians, Hispanics, Indians, Native Indians, Asian, Black and White. The schools are very good, especially Eagle Creek Elementary where my kids go. I used to live in Lakeville, where it is pre-dominantly white with some diversity, but I really do appreciate the diversity. Once you get to know everyone around you, I have a lot of respect for all races. I have encountered after growing up in Iowa and living in Kansas City for 5 years, this is about the best place you can find for non-racism. I am not saying it does not exist, but I have NEVER encountered it first hand living in Minneapolis areas. Besides the races are not AS seperate as they may be in other cities. You can definitely find diversity. I think it is safe to say you would do good in any of the areas around the city that are away from the high crime areas. I think the major crime is confined to certain areas with little exception.

[Min-Chi-Cbus]

Grand Rapids, MI can compete with anything in MN in terms of hockey.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by need_some_sun

I can't comment on Hockey as my kids don't play, but my kids are bi-racial. I have two boys 8 and 11. Their dad is African American and I am white. We live in Shakopee. It is about as diverse as you get! You have Russians, Hispanics, Indians, Native Indians, Asian, Black and White. The schools are very good, especially Eagle Creek Elementary where my kids go. I used to live in Lakeville, where it is pre-dominantly white with some diversity, but I really do appreciate the diversity. Once you get to know everyone around you, I have a lot of respect for all races. I have encountered after growing up in Iowa and living in Kansas City for 5 years, this is about the best place you can find for non-racism. I am not saying it does not exist, but I have NEVER encountered it first hand living in Minneapolis areas. Besides the races are not AS seperate as they may be in other cities. You can definitely find diversity. I think it is safe to say you would do good in any of the areas around the city that are away from the high crime areas. I think the major crime is confined to certain areas with little exception.

I think this is a big reason you DON'T run into major issues here. You don't have pockets of nationalities like you see elsewhere. People here are more segregated by income levels than anything. On our block alone we have a family from India, Korea, a family who are 1st generation American's and their parents, who live with them, are naturalized citizens from Japan. The next block over there are at least 2 white/African Am families that I know of-maybe more with younger kids. We have one family down the street that are Russian immigrants as well. But, according to the city dwellers we are not diverse so I must be missing some definition of that word that proves otherwise

[uptown_urbanist]

Could we PLEASE stop with the lashing out at "city dwellers," please? First, not one "city dweller" on this thread has suggested that all suburbs are diverse, or that there isn't some level of diversity in all suburbs. That said, all one has to do is to take a look at the numbers; the reality is that many Twin Cities suburbs are overwhelmingly white. Obviously not ALL suburbs or all neighborhoods, as HAS BEEN NOTED. Shakopee is one of the outer suburbs that does have a reputation for a level of diversity not found in many local exurbs. Perhaps Rosemount is, too; I haven't commented on that (although I did just look it up, and the most recent numbers say it's 87.4% white -- not diverse by most counts). But the reality -- however you want to spin it -- is that Twin Cities still do have a lot of segregation. All it takes is a simple look at the most recent American Community Survey data to confirm that. If the OP wants a diverse location she's going to have to decide what level of diversity is acceptable (is 90% one race okay? If so, she'll have a lot more options), and go from there.

Keep in mind, of course, that just because a community is majority, even VAST majority, white, doesn't mean that it's that way due to racism. Minnesota has historically been a very white state, and while that is changing, it's still going to take time for very, very white areas to diversify. That's not a criticism, and it doesn't mean that those communities are not good places to live. Things just don't happen overnight, that's all. But we don't know why the OP wants to have a diverse or semi-diverse community; it's not necessarily due to fears of racism. Maybe she just doesn't want to have her son be the only African American kid on the block, or maybe she just prefers to live somewhere where the neighbors come from a wide range of backgrounds.

And, as I noted, some suburbs are now more diverse than the city. As also noted, suburbs like Edina are NOT among them. Or, it appears, Rosemount. That doesn't mean that those places aren't perfectly nice places to live, or that you won't find other people from other races, or that you'll encounter any racism. In fact, I think the Twin Cities is the kind of place where people LOVE when someone not white moves in, as they can then point to their neighbors as evidence that they aren't racist and that they are, indeed, diverse. (that's not an urban/suburban thing; Linden Hills in Minneapolis is pretty overwhelmingly white -- 87.7% for the zip code to be exact -- and I think it's kind of a sore spot.)

I don't think the Twin Cities are a racist place, but it's still a pretty segregated metro area, and the diversity levels are not what they are in many other parts of the country. That is changing, and that's mostly just a reflection of the area's history as opposed to any racial antagonism. The Twin Cities, or at least Minneapolis, have actually long had a reputation for being very open to interracial families, going back to the time when it was illegal in some parts of the country. You're unlikely to run into any problems anywhere in the Twin Cities, although it is possible that you will be the only interracial or any race other than white family on the block in many neighborhoods.

On the economic segregation issue, it is true that economic segregation is the bigger issue; that also varies quite a bit by neighborhood and community. Some neighborhoods are far more economically integrated and offer a broader variety of housing types and costs than others. Some see economically integrated neighborhoods as as a good thing; for others it's a negative, and you will see flare-ups and debates over that topic from time to time in the Twin Cities. Sometimes it can get quite nasty.

An article on overall changes in demographics in the Twin Cities: http://www.startribune.com/local/west/112425504.html

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus

Grand Rapids, MI can compete with anything in MN in terms of hockey.

It would be interesting to have some sort of inter-state HS hockey tournament. That way, pretenders like Michigan and Maine could be put in their place.