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More bravo sierra. No "purge" of senior officers happened under Obama.
There were nearly 1000 flag officers when Obama took office. He certainly put no dent in that, and no more had left when he left than were normal attrition.
Oh, wait, are you now claiming that Trump did the purging?
But that's still more bravo sierra. It didn't happen.
No, that's more bravo sierra. Biden hasn't even gotten rid of all of Trump's political appointees in the Pentagon yet.
As. The policy of the past thirty years Not whats good for the country but what is good for the party...Teump thought everyone wanted Whats good for the Country.......trump a newbie to Washington politics.
As. The policy of the past thirty years Not whats good for the country but what is good for the party...Teump thought everyone wanted Whats good for the Country.......trump a newbie to Washington politics.
Nonsense. People in and out of uniform, in a bureaucracy, "working against" a president is totally different that the military leadership controverting the Constitution and seizing power. Bureaucracies work against presidential administrations all the time. That's what bureaucracies do. They try to maintain the status quo. If a president tries to come in and shake things up, the bureaucracy will resist that.
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This is an important point. The Pentagon bureaucracy does, indeed, tend to follow the Iron Law of Bureaucracy, as does any bureaucracy. In that way, it's classically conservative--it passively resists radical changes by any president.
OTOH, it is still responsive to good leadership. For instance, the bureaucracy loved Reagan and protected him (sometimes from himself), more because of his leadership style than his politics.
As. The policy of the past thirty years Not whats good for the country but what is good for the party...Teump thought everyone wanted Whats good for the Country.......trump a newbie to Washington politics.
I've worked in military environments since I attended Naval OCS in NOV 1988. I work in a military installation now. The mid-level military officers I work with now (0-5s and 0-6s) are absolutely almost uniformly conservative.
Vindman was an O-5. He was a gnat. He was a flyspeck. He reported what he heard in a phone call. Sorry. I don't equate that with trying to "take down" the president.
Nonsense. People in and out of uniform, in a bureaucracy, "working against" a president is totally different that the military leadership controverting the Constitution and seizing power. Bureaucracies work against presidential administrations all the time. That's what bureaucracies do. They try to maintain the status quo. If a president tries to come in and shake things up, the bureaucracy will resist that.
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I’m not talking about mid level guys. Of course the mid level guys are mostly conservative. I see that in the enlisted ranks too where most are conservative. I’m talking about the civilian workforce in the Pentagon, and I’m talking about the senior appointments. Those are mostly all Democrats. But I do see your point of a bureaucracy working against a president such as Trump. But I still think there was much more to it than just that. I think you had people actively working to oust him. That’s a fine line they are trying to walk. On the one hand, supposedly following and upholding the constitution, but on the other hand actively undermining and trying to oust a sitting president? How can you have it both ways?
I’m not trying to turn this into a political argument because I don’t think Trump was all that great of a president to be honest.
I just don’t get how you guys can’t see the difference over the last few years? Now that DC has “their guy” in charge, isn’t it odd how everyone in the Pentagon is acting normal all of a sudden? No leaks, nobody trying to take down Biden. All the nonsense is gonna start up again once “their guy” is no longer in charge.
Well then you are not talking the subject of the thread which is about being in the military and following those orders.
The top civilians in the Pentagon are the ones that push through the top military appointments. If your belief system matches theirs, you continue to get stars. If they don’t, you find your career stalled and you take your retirement pay. This is a new way of doing business as this didn’t go on even a few years ago.
So if all of a sudden you have a President who has the opposing viewpoint of everyone in an agency, you’ve got problems. In the past, it didn’t matter. Military members at the top level were for the most part apolitical and they kept their opinions to themselves.
But we seen it over and over again under Trump. Senior military members who normally never weighed in on the political infighting were drafting numerous letters condemning the President.
I just find it funny and hypocritical that there were military officers who were supposedly upholding the constitution and the oath they took, while at the same time badmouthing the commander in chief and committing acts of sedition. You can’t have it both ways.
But we seen it over and over again under Trump. Senior military members who normally never weighed in on the political infighting were drafting numerous letters condemning the President.
I just find it funny and hypocritical that there were military officers who were supposedly upholding the constitution and the oath they took, while at the same time badmouthing the commander in chief and committing acts of sedition. You can’t have it both ways.
They drafted letters actually condemning the President, himself? Do you think you could link a couple of these numerous letters? Because I don’t believe THAT ever happened. Military officers take their apolitical stance seriously.
If they don’t, you find your career stalled and you take your retirement pay.
This statement reveals someone who does not have the slightest clue how a career in the military works.
This statement reveals you don't work with the military. It reveals you don't work around the military. It reveals you don't even know anyone who has been retired from the military.
Well then you are not talking the subject of the thread which is about being in the military and following those orders.
^^^^^^This. We were talking about uniformed personnel following orders and upholding the Constitution and you're veering off into "civilian workforce" in the Pentagon.
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Originally Posted by WK91
I’m not talking about mid level guys. Of course the mid level guys are mostly conservative. I see that in the enlisted ranks too where most are conservative. I’m talking about the civilian workforce in the Pentagon....
Again, that's not what the thread was about. And, yes, in my experience, military leaders are conservative. And while I don't have personal information regarding the political leanings of SENIOR military leadership, I don't see why there should be a big difference between mid level and senior military personnel.
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...and I’m talking about the senior appointments. Those are mostly all Democrats. But I do see your point of a bureaucracy working against a president such as Trump. But I still think there was much more to it than just that. I think you had people actively working to oust him. That’s a fine line they are trying to walk. On the one hand, supposedly following and upholding the constitution, but on the other hand actively undermining and trying to oust a sitting president? How can you have it both ways?
Again, I think you're conflating civilian and military. Are you talking about Senior, AD military personnel "trying to oust a sitting president"? If so, please cite your source. Who are you talking about? Vindman doesn't cut it. He was a whistle blower. He was a nobody who listened in on a phone call. If you have the name of a SENIOR military leader who was "trying to oust the president," please name him.
Quote:
I just don’t get how you guys can’t see the difference over the last few years? Now that DC has “their guy” in charge, isn’t it odd how everyone in the Pentagon is acting normal all of a sudden? No leaks, nobody trying to take down Biden. All the nonsense is gonna start up again once “their guy” is no longer in charge.
I think that’s the proof right there.
What proof? You've cited no proof. What difference? There are ALWAYS leaks in bureaucracies. ALWAYS. Take down Biden? If Biden did something as IDIOTIC as Trump's Ukraine phone call, there's no doubt in my mind we'd have whistle blowers ready to expose it. You're seeing a vast, left-wing, deep state conspiracy in the Pentagon where none exists.
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