[easydoesit]

I am not from Michigan and my observations are simply from reading a lot of material, making observations and passing through the state from time to time.

I just can't figure out Michigan. Yes, the auto industry situation is well known. It will never be what it once was.

However, IMHO, MI has a lot to offer but doesn't seem quite ready to be what it is capable of being. Why is that? Is it purely poor execution at the state gov level? I don't know but it just seems like MI is too special of a place to let it go.

[tommy2tone]

It is many reasons, granholm raising taxes and trying to run out business, the auto industry was the foundation that the state economy was built, Those that say it is not are lying to you. The housing market is slumping all over the us, but michigan is the worst. we do not have anything to look forward to pick us out of the slump. so let the pie in the sky idiots spew the "michigan is great crap"

[easydoesit]

I hear you tommy but I think MI has access to some incredibly important waterways, does pretty good tourism wise and is home to a couple of rock solid state universities that produce a lot of bright people. That's why I wondered if it was, aside from the auto biz, the result of poor political efforts.

[BurtsBees]

Granholm and Detroit.

[green_mariner]

Lack of investment.

[M TYPE X]

Originally Posted by tommy2tone

It is many reasons, granholm raising taxes and trying to run out business, the auto industry was the foundation that the state economy was built, Those that say it is not are lying to you. The housing market is slumping all over the us, but michigan is the worst. we do not have anything to look forward to pick us out of the slump. so let the pie in the sky idiots spew the "michigan is great crap"

Like everyone says, take the idiots and their enablers out of Michigan, and you have a very nice place. Unfortunately, if you just detonated the current power structure, every refugee from Chicago will move on in and call the shots.

[Schaumburger]

Let me just say that the blame Jenny extremists have no clue what's going on. Michigan has lowered taxes some 50 times in the last decade or two. So, no, lower taxes doesn't mean more investment. When you make long lasting quality driven auto its no wonder business will be slow.

I would say that Michigan will turn around once a few things become reality. Michigan either needs to bring back a simplified business friendly SBT or replace it with a tax -- now! Removing the SBT without a replacement and the lowering of taxes has left business with uncertainty.

In my opinion, the State and her people really did this to themselves by expecting growth through the hard line no tax philosophy. You can't expect business to grow in an unpredictable tax environment. Michigan can be unpredictable.

[mintriver]

Gee, who could've predicted that all of our jobs were going to go over-seas??

My husband was told flat-out that if he wanted to keep his job he would have to move to India, thanks for the support, back stabbing 'big three'!
Both our vehicles are Fords, what for???

We were going to open a business here. Now? It just doesn't make good business sense.
We're joining the Exodus out of this state!

[nickbii]

Originally Posted by easydoesit

I am not from Michigan and my observations are simply from reading a lot of material, making observations and passing through the state from time to time.

I just can't figure out Michigan. Yes, the auto industry situation is well known. It will never be what it once was.

However, IMHO, MI has a lot to offer but doesn't seem quite ready to be what it is capable of being. Why is that? Is it purely poor execution at the state gov level? I don't know but it just seems like MI is too special of a place to let it go.

In SE Michigan the only governments that execute well are in Oakland County. Everybody else just kinda sits there, trying to be fat and happy while their people leave. Everybody thinks very narrowly, trying to figure out what's in it for them.

Oakland County, for example, has been a major block to developing real mass transit. They sit on SEMCOG, which should (theoretically) coordinate transportation among with all the relevant governments in the area; and they think mass transit would hurt them because it would reduce the justification for expanding highways, which they need to keep growing.

They don't care that their growth is at everyone else's expense, or that the lack of mass transit hurts the entire area. It helps them, so it's taboo. And, like I said, they're the only truly effective government in the area.

If you don't believe me look at the proposal for light rail between Detroit and Ann Arbor. It does not go through Oakland County, so you'd think they wouldn't give a damn one way or the other. But they delayed and delayed until Senator Stabenow got the feds to spend $100 million "studying" the possibility. The study itself will take like $1 million, and the rest is intended for startup costs. Oakland County was outraged.

It's so bad some of their cities actually sued to reduce their own County government's clout on SEMCOG. They had to use Civil Rights law (it's perfectly legal to discriminate based on residence) so they claimed SEMCOG discriminates against blacks because Detroit gets almost no votes. The Courts did not want to touch this, so they ruled Ferndale does not have the right to sue on behalf of Detroit.

Detroit itself has gained slightly more clout on SEMCOG by threatening to leave. That would destroy the organization because the Feds only recognize regional organizations that include the major city.


This whole stab-thy-neighbor culture permeates Lansing. Take taxes. We had 12 years of no-new-tax Engler, and during Granholm's the legislature was death on taxes. So we've had 16 years of cutting the state budget. That means all the fat is gone, and we've got to cut some very important things (like prisons), or raise taxes if we want the numbers to add up. We need the numbers to add up yesterday, so our businesses can plan for next year. Local governments need those numbers even more, so they know whether they'll have to fire police.

So these *******s should have sat down and worked things out on Jan 1. But they didn't. The GOP Senate Leader behaved particularly bizarrely -- he claimed that a) he had a plan that would save everybody without taxes, b) the plan had to stay secret until he could present to the Governor, and c) he had no time to meet the Governor.

AFAIK the same stupid infighting cripples the rest of the state.

Nick

[michiganirish]

Originally Posted by easydoesit

I hear you tommy but I think MI has access to some incredibly important waterways, does pretty good tourism wise and is home to a couple of rock solid state universities that produce a lot of bright people. That's why I wondered if it was, aside from the auto biz, the result of poor political efforts.

While all that is true, the majority of Michiganders do not live or work in the areas that are considered tourist destinations. And the tourist areas do not have jobs that will support a home and family. Most of the jobs are low end and barely above minimum wage. They also tend to be in less populated areas and many, such as Mackinaw Island, import workers from other countries for the summer. (Mackinaw Island used to be a huge resource for college kids in the summers not any more)

I live in the area surrounding area of the U of M in Ann Arbor, and you're right, there are plenty of bright people. Most are not from Michigan however. And they certainly aren't going to remain in a state that has a bleak future.

Michigan's government knew years ago that relying on the faultering auto industry would spell big problems here. They ignored all of the warning signs. And as it goes our economy so dependant on that industry is now feeling the "trickle down" effect of lay offs and plant closings.

And you also cannot ignore the unemployed that do not have the college degrees, as I wrote in my other post, my husband's 32 years of management and quality in the steel industry has meant nothing into todays marget.

Michigan is in deep trouble, and until Michigan residents realize that without the proper leadership we won't get out of this muck anytime soon.