[merit1sje]

Let me start out by saying that; Whatever economy that we did have, is now gone. Sure, there may be small pockets of industry, but they are few and far between. And if you are one of the few and far; count your blessings.

Michigan is in for one rough ride and there really isn't anyone who can pinpoint the reason why? What I do know is that from the begining of 2000 to the end of this year, we will have lost almost a million jobs. That's 1/10 of our population. Or if you want to spread that out as an average for the 83 counties that we have in the state, it comes out to a little over 12,000 jobs per county! Anyone still wonder why we're in a mess?

It's possible that someday we will be able to rebound from this. The question is when? No one has an answer for this either. True, some of us will hold on; the few and far. But at some point; they will be become the in between.

The problem is; that we are falling faster than we are rising. The Pew Institute did a recent study of Michigans economic job outlook. If, and that a pretty big if, our economy were to come back in the next two years and continue to grow, it would take until 2025 until we replaced all of the jobs that we have lost.

How much time do you have?

[M_P_E]

All the time in the world. We don't rebound, replace, or recover. We evolve. The world is changing. We need to accept this and work with it.

People need to stop spending money they don't have, and require the same of their government. If this means that they (or others) have to do without, so be it. Until we learn to live within our means, we will never be in a position to rebound. When you're flat broke, you're less able to adapt, to start businesses, to innovate, to hedge against adversity, or any number of other things that will be essential to succeeding within the new realities we live in.

Our problems are largely a product of denial and unrealistic expectations. Until we break these habits, we're going to be stuck right where we are.

[Sparrow_temp]

Our real problem is our corrupt government and their encouragement of global labor arbitrage. Business will always do what it can to become more efficient but it's our government's love affair with free trade that has allowed it to happen. And then there's the increasing tax burden that the government is putting on everybody to pay for all of these new programs. The net result is the middle class is shrinking; wages are going down; unemployment is going up. And we now have a President who thinks he can spend our way to economic prosperity and a Congress that is going along with it.

[malamute]

True, the government is what is trying to evolve us into a third world nation and it's doing a great job. Wait until they entice millions more people to come here by offering yet another huge amnesty with it's promised "family reunification". All the Americans who think they're above working for minimum wage will be tough out of luck there are hundreds of millions of very poor people in the world who will be happy to work for a couple dollars an hour, minimum wage would thrill them.

The politicians are owned by the big greedy corporations. They're not working for the American people.

[RomanGeneral]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

Our real problem is our corrupt government and their encouragement of global labor arbitrage. Business will always do what it can to become more efficient but it's our government's love affair with free trade that has allowed it to happen. And then there's the increasing tax burden that the government is putting on everybody to pay for all of these new programs. The net result is the middle class is shrinking; wages are going down; unemployment is going up. And we now have a President who thinks he can spend our way to economic prosperity and a Congress that is going along with it.

So what kind of jobs you do down at Las Cruces?I read that it is not a very a good place to live.Yeah,Michigan economy is in the toilet and that is why houses go for superjunk prices.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by merit1sje

Let me start out by saying that; Whatever economy that we did have, is now gone. Sure, there may be small pockets of industry, but they are few and far between. And if you are one of the few and far; count your blessings.

Michigan is in for one rough ride and there really isn't anyone who can pinpoint the reason why? What I do know is that from the begining of 2000 to the end of this year, we will have lost almost a million jobs. That's 1/10 of our population. Or if you want to spread that out as an average for the 83 counties that we have in the state, it comes out to a little over 12,000 jobs per county! Anyone still wonder why we're in a mess?

It's possible that someday we will be able to rebound from this. The question is when? No one has an answer for this either. True, some of us will hold on; the few and far. But at some point; they will be become the in between.

The problem is; that we are falling faster than we are rising. The Pew Institute did a recent study of Michigans economic job outlook. If, and that a pretty big if, our economy were to come back in the next two years and continue to grow, it would take until 2025 until we replaced all of the jobs that we have lost.

How much time do you have?

"there really isn't anyone who can pinpoint why?" I think a lot of people have pinpointed why Michigan' economy is shrinking. We have been predominantly a manufacturing based economy for the better part of the last century. A manufacturing economy that pushed Michigan into the elite economies in the world (especially automotive). You can pinpoint Michigan's decline almost precisely to NAFTA and the wide open door policies of trade that have been enacted in the last 15 - 20 years. Trade deals that "level the global playing field", which means we go down while under-developed countries rise up. It's the free market. Isn't that what we all want?

It also doesn't help that American car companies, Michigan's largest employers, have been consistently losing market share in that same time period.

There are/were a lot of service companies in Michigan, but unfortunately many of them have/had automotive companies as clients.

There are a lot of small companies starting up and growing in Michigan, that provide products and services to out-of-state and out-of-country clients. Problem is is that they can't grow fast enough to offset mfg job losses.

So we can continue to say that we don't need manufacturing in this country, while the recipients of these mfg jobs are enjoying economic booms of 8+% per year. Or we can do something about it.

[Sparrow_temp]

Not sure where you read that Las Cruces isn't a nice place to live. Weather is near perfect -- not too hot in the summer (it's cooler than AZ), low humidity, lots of sunshine, mild winters. It ranks up there in retirement spots. Nice view of the Organ mountains. Climate is classified as arid subtropical according to the Wiki.

I work at the White Sands Complex which is one of the area's larger employers. I'm guessing the area has about 100K population and if you want a larger city, El Paso, TX is less than an hour away and has 700K population. As long as you have a job, I prefer this area to MI. And probably anywhere sucks if you don't have a job/source of income.

Originally Posted by RomanGeneral

So what kind of jobs you do down at Las Cruces?I read that it is not a very a good place to live.Yeah,Michigan economy is in the toilet and that is why houses go for superjunk prices.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by RomanGeneral

So what kind of jobs you do down at Las Cruces?I read that it is not a very a good place to live.Yeah,Michigan economy is in the toilet and that is why houses go for superjunk prices.

I think most people in Las Cruces really don't want anyone to know it - but Las Cruces is one of the nicer places to live. Not too hot, not too cold, weather doesn't get in the way much at all. An hours drive away you can be up hiking in cool pine forests.

If you check the Las Cruces forum, you don't see people complaining about lack of jobs or the economy. The recession hasn't hit this part of the country yet.

[canudigit]

Originally Posted by magellan

"there really isn't anyone who can pinpoint why?" I think a lot of people have pinpointed why Michigan' economy is shrinking. We have been predominantly a manufacturing based economy for the better part of the last century. A manufacturing economy that pushed Michigan into the elite economies in the world (especially automotive). You can pinpoint Michigan's decline almost precisely to NAFTA and the wide open door policies of trade that have been enacted in the last 15 - 20 years. Trade deals that "level the global playing field", which means we go down while under-developed countries rise up. It's the free market. Isn't that what we all want?

It also doesn't help that American car companies, Michigan's largest employers, have been consistently losing market share in that same time period.

There are/were a lot of service companies in Michigan, but unfortunately many of them have/had automotive companies as clients.

There are a lot of small companies starting up and growing in Michigan, that provide products and services to out-of-state and out-of-country clients. Problem is is that they can't grow fast enough to offset mfg job losses.

So we can continue to say that we don't need manufacturing in this country, while the recipients of these mfg jobs are enjoying economic booms of 8+% per year. Or we can do something about it.

This is as good of a synopsis as I've seen. The passage of NAFTA really did a number, not just on Michigan, but on all of the northern manufacturing states. I never did understand what the US stood to gain from that policy, but I can sure see what we had to lose.

I love this country, but I don't understand why we are constantly bending over backwards to accommodate foreign countries who do nothing for us in return except for drain our finances, send us a bunch of shoddy, inferior products (not all, but a lot), and benefit from unbalanced trade. It's good to look out for others, but not to the point where your own taxpaying citizens are hurting because of it.

[YAZ]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

Not sure where you read that Las Cruces isn't a nice place to live. Weather is near perfect -- not too hot in the summer (it's cooler than AZ), low humidity, lots of sunshine, mild winters. It ranks up there in retirement spots. Nice view of the Organ mountains. Climate is classified as arid subtropical according to the Wiki.

.

Not to mention the world class elk hunting.

My wife is from Cruces; attended NMSU too.

We enjoy going for the weekend in the summertime to cool off. It only gets up to 100 degrees or so.

Old Mesilla is the place to be....