[JD59]

"Government has never increased the standard of living of one single human being in civilization's history. For some reason that simple truth has evaded everybody. The only thing that creates an increased standard of living is giving someone a job, the demand for their labor -- whether it's you and I, Chris, or anybody else. The people that are paying the price for this juggernaut of federal spending are the middle class and the working class of America."

Breitbart.tv » Steve Wynn Schools Michigan Governor on How to Create Jobs

[Bydand]

Somebody needs to school her on what really pays the bills of a State. Jobs, not more Gov't programs and NOT cuts in education spending.

[michigan83]

"Government has never increased the standard of living of one single human being in civilization's history. For some reason that simple truth has evaded everybody. The only thing that creates an increased standard of living is giving someone a job, the demand for their labor -- whether it's you and I, Chris, or anybody else. The people that are paying the price for this juggernaut of federal spending are the middle class and the working class of America."

Breitbart.tv » Steve Wynn Schools Michigan Governor on How to Create Jobs

I thoroughly enjoyed that video.

While I do not blame Granholm for the collapse of our state's economy, I also think that her worldview is the exact opposite of what we need from our leadership right now. We need an aggressively pro-business governor.

[magellan]

I certainly don't like Granholm, but here's a schooling for Steve Wynn (one note samba casino developer): the Washington DC Metro area, including several counties of Northern Virginia, is the wealthiest metro area in the country, maybe in the world. The GREAT majority of the direct jobs and spinoff jobs are government related. Compare that to low income low value Las Vegas. Same with Ann Arbor. It enjoys some of the healthiest median incomes and housing values in Michigan, much of this supported by government related jobs. To say that government "never" and private industry "always" is laughable.

[michigan83]

I certainly don't like Granholm, but here's a schooling for Steve Wynn (one note samba casino developer): the Washington DC Metro area, including several counties of Northern Virginia, is the wealthiest metro area in the country, maybe in the world. The GREAT majority of the direct jobs and spinoff jobs are government related. Compare that to low income low value Las Vegas. Same with Ann Arbor. It enjoys some of the healthiest median incomes and housing values in Michigan, much of this supported by government related jobs. To say that government "never" and private industry "always" is laughable.

Magellan... where does the "government" get its resources? From us.

WE are subsidizing those lifestyles. That high standard of living around D.C. is built with tax money that comes into the area from places throughout the U.S. that are actually productive.

So yes, Ann Arbor and D.C: You're welcome. The rest of us love paying 1/3 or more of our salary in taxes so that we can watch places like Ann Arbor and D.C. collect it and use it to achieve a higher standard of living with government-related jobs.

You can't create a government job without taxing private businesses and citizens. It's so simple. Again, even if a government job "increases the standard of living," it can only do so because it has taken money from the productive private sector.

In short, the private sector actually provides for that high standard of living around D.C., albeit indirectly. The government is not the true source.

[Bydand]

I think if people who work for the Gov't really think the money is somehow magically produced by that Gov't agency, then we need to set aside all taxes for everybody. When that gov't employee needs gas, food, clothing, etc... they need to go around their neighborhood with their hand out and knock at every door and inform the people living there they need to cough up $20 each. Or when the roads need to be fixed or plowed stop by and pick up a few $ from everyone along the way so they can fill up the truck and do the maintenance. Then they will see where it really comes from.

Gov't does NOT provide a real increase in the standard of living for people. Maybe an outward appearance of it, but that comes at the expense of somebody else who is actually either working for a living or owns a business.

[MTUCache]

While the presence of a large government does definitely hurt the individual's ability to thrive and increase their own standard of living, the absence of government is exponentially worse.

Yes, the present state of our government is getting intolerable. The juggernauts in Washington and Lansing are hurting much more than they are helping. But, you must admit that at least some form of government is necessary, even if it's role is only public safety (which I feel it should be).

Without some degree of armed forces, police presence, a judicial system, basic sanitation and sewage, emergency response (all of which are paid for by the people, but provide direct benefits to the people), we would exist in a constant state of struggle, our lives decided more by neighboring warlords than by ourselves. Without question today's form of government is more conducive to increasing the standard of living for the population than living as a bunch of nomadic, warring tribes would be. One could argue that all of the most important economic powers of today have been created by some of the strongest governments, not the weakest (although, you could also argue that the standards of living in those countries are not necessarily higher).

Steve Wynn's industry was once controlled by just such an underworld, but I think he would have to agree that the government stepping in to regulate Vegas has indeed helped his ability to increase his own standard of living.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by michigan83

Magellan... where does the "government" get its resources? From us.

WE are subsidizing those lifestyles. That high standard of living around D.C. is built with tax money that comes into the area from places throughout the U.S. that are actually productive.

So yes, Ann Arbor and D.C: You're welcome. The rest of us love paying 1/3 or more of our salary in taxes so that we can watch places like Ann Arbor and D.C. collect it and use it to achieve a higher standard of living with government-related jobs.

You can't create a government job without taxing private businesses and citizens. It's so simple. Again, even if a government job "increases the standard of living," it can only do so because it has taken money from the productive private sector.

In short, the private sector actually provides for that high standard of living around D.C., albeit indirectly. The government is not the true source.

My point is there is no absolute "private industry is always good" and "government is always bad." Wal-Mart produces jobs at the expense of other jobs (a net negative). Much of private industry is subsidized in some way or another by us taxpayers, either through tax credits/incentives, or the infrastructure that allows them to conduct commerce. Educating a workforce to support the business community is mostly funded by us taxpayers.

Much of the infrastructure we rely on to enjoy one of the most luxurious lifestyles in the modern world (superhighways, transportation, airports, gas, electricity, sewer, stormwater management, running water, fiber optics, satellite systems) is entirely subsidized by the government, producing jobs. How can anyone say that just because someone works for the government, they aren't "earning a living?"

After saying all that though, I am totally against the out-of-control spending going on in the federal government. I know the state of Michigan gets slammed a lot, but I've read that it is exponentially smaller than it was just 3 - 5 years ago.

[junior 88 fan]

She'd rather uphold party lines and increase taxes at the sacrifice of jobs then to lower business/property and personal taxes to create growth. Don't ya just love taxocrats? This state needs to be run like a business, not a social program. That's it, argue with a very successful businessman on national TV and push your liberal agenda. Until the voters wake the he__ up, MI will continue to push business opps away. BTW, windmills and batteries, will not save this state, Jenny. Wouldn't it be nice for you to leave on a positive note like perhaps you refused to be a puppet to the fascist in DC and actually went against party lines by lowering taxes significantly in the state and attempt to salvage something? Nah, just run out the rest of your term, do nothing and be proud of your achievements. Whew, we're blown away.

[michigan83]

Originally Posted by MTUCache

While the presence of a large government does definitely hurt the individual's ability to thrive and increase their own standard of living, the absence of government is exponentially worse.

Yes, the present state of our government is getting intolerable. The juggernauts in Washington and Lansing are hurting much more than they are helping. But, you must admit that at least some form of government is necessary, even if it's role is only public safety (which I feel it should be).

Without some degree of armed forces, police presence, a judicial system, basic sanitation and sewage, emergency response (all of which are paid for by the people, but provide direct benefits to the people), we would exist in a constant state of struggle, our lives decided more by neighboring warlords than by ourselves. Without question today's form of government is more conducive to increasing the standard of living for the population than living as a bunch of nomadic, warring tribes would be. One could argue that all of the most important economic powers of today have been created by some of the strongest governments, not the weakest (although, you could also argue that the standards of living in those countries are not necessarily higher).

Steve Wynn's industry was once controlled by just such an underworld, but I think he would have to agree that the government stepping in to regulate Vegas has indeed helped his ability to increase his own standard of living.

Can't argue with any of this.

Thankfully, we are in NO danger of being a nation without government. We could reduce the size and power of our governent dramatically without even approaching the level of "basic services only."

I understand the importance of government. But I don't think the current balance of things is ideal.