[chiroptera]

Actually, just for fun I went to the citydata main page where you can compare stats on different cities. I'm a relative newcomer to Michigan and this thread made me curious about Saginaw.
Putting the two side by side - Saginaw is about half the size of Flint, has higher % of conservative voters, is losing population at a higher rate than Flint and has comparable crime (very high), average education level (much lower than US average) and economic (pretty low) stats. It also has fewer institutes of higher learning and lower per capita income. Based on that, I stand by my comment that Saginaw wouldn't be a good candidate for a used book store and I don't think it's liberal/progressive. Ditto for Flint, that's not meant as a negative, just what is, my opinion only which lordy knows could be off base but I don't think so.
The neat thing about rather depressed cities is there's a great deal of grassroots effort on the part of people who live there - I see it in Flint and I imagine Saginaw is the same way.

[Steph22]

I really do apologize, it wasn't really towards a specific person. I speak in anger because seeing all these people trying to promote further up north to areas where all the rich already have so much put into their summer houses and don't contribute anything down here.
Saginaw's used bookstores actually do pretty well compared to other businesses in Saginaw.
I am 22 years old, and love going to used book stores... For someone my age, they are perfect because of the prices and even the rare books that cost more catch my attention. My friends and I will often go to used book stores when we go out of town or are here in Saginaw.
Not only do younger people go, but my father goes as well.. The used book stores we have in the present, have been in business since I was a child... I don't think another used bookstore would do that bad, especially in our downtown because the closest used store to downtown is in oldtown. There wouldn't really be any competition.
I feel alot of pride in my city, I think the areas that are run down, can actually have alot of charm in them because there is always space and the dream to build them back up... I really just want people to see what I see... You hear alot of negativity towards Michigan's eastern coast but I believe our cities are the ones with the most potential to do well once again. That is why I was angry.
Saginaw's downtown is trying to revitalize itself... There's a struggle, but other then our state building and castle museum, we now also have 2 coffee houses, art studios, the Temple theatre and event center both have opened back up, etc. etc... We don't have as much as Flint and Detroit do- but the community wants to see more!
I really hope I didn't offend anyone, or at least not too much. I just want to see my community as many others were able to before me!

and actually, the city-data statistics aren't completely telling you the city data---- it includes Saginaw Township along with the city and many other townships that aren't a part of the city---- I know, because I looked at the zip codes... so that is why it would say it is more conservative, on top of that our numbers may be dwindling, but the areas university, SVSU is one of the fastest growing universities in Michigan so Saginaw might be having some harsh times right now, but I've met plenty of people who come from out of town and I still know plenty of people who leave and always come back. Our city might be poverty compared to many others, but I feel comfortable walking in downtown by myself during the day time and at night time when there's an event going on. It's perfectly safe just like any other city, most of the time the crime is based on people who were looking for trouble in the first place.

[chiroptera]

Good for you Steph (I think we posted at the same time!)
I'm with you on the rundown areas having charm. Well, sort of....some of Flint's rundown areas are just plain nasty and truly are beyond saving. I think Flint has a really pretty downtown with the cobbled streets and river - renovations and improvements are being made there too, which is cool.

We have a book store here called Jellybeans - actually one is in Burton (almost in Flint) and one is down towards Grand Blanc on Fenton Road. Not sure exactly what city - maybe that one's in Burton too.
The almost-in-Flint one specializes more in antique/vintage books and collectible comics, they do a lot of business online also. The other one is a big regular type used book store, they also have all sorts of used music, videos, games, DVDs etc. I go to that one quite a bit.

Does Saginaw/Bay City have a farmers' market? The one in Flint is really quite excellent and I'm happy to say I live about a mile away, it's open year 'round.
I've only lived in MI 4 years and change (moved from Colorado, everyone asks WHY? LOL) and although I admit I don't love it, for now I am trying to make the best of living here.

[chiroptera]

Originally Posted by Steph22

but I feel comfortable walking in downtown by myself during the day time and at night time when there's an event going on. It's perfectly safe just like any other city, most of the time the crime is based on people who were looking for trouble in the first place.

Agree with you there. I have a house on the infamous Flint's east side, in a fairly marginal area. In the almost two years I've lived here, I've had an AK47 used in a drive-by killing thrown from a fleeing vehicle directly in front of my house (about a month ago) and two people have been shot on my block. I'm also 2 blocks around the corner from the house where that poor little girl Rose Kelly died last month, I'm sure that's been in your news too. And until last summer when there was a big bust, there was a large crack house 3 blocks away, they used to deal up and down the street.
Despite that, most of the people who live around here are decent and law abiding; I don't really feel threatened because I don't do the sort of stuff that will get me shot. It's low-lifes shooting other low-lifes, people who aren't involved in that stuff VERY rarely get caught in crossfire. My chances of dying in an auto accident or something is much, much higher.
Besides, it's entertaining. Haha!

[Steph22]

Yeah, I think I've been to Jellybeans before actually- do they also sell used tapes and records?
I have not really hung out yet in Flint's downtown yet, but I've been to the planetarium, which I have to say is more impressive then Bay Citys.
I'd love to visit Flint's Institute of Arts. I heard it is pretty impressive. The Saginaw Art Museum had just added a new wing within the past 6 years and I am pretty proud. We also are getting a Children's Museum by next summer which I think will bring a little more charm to the area.
Saginaw has a Farmer's Market. I'm pretty sure it's smaller then Flints and I know it's definately way smaller then Detroits, but it's really nice and alot better then buying from Kessels, haha.
Saginaw's downtown farmers market is only open during the summer, but they have plenty of really nice little stores all around Saginaw that basically service like the farmers market.
The country and suburbs in Saginaw are so much closer to the inner city since it is a smaller area so you really don't feel like your wasting too much gas driving out towards country farmers markets.

[Karen Wellman]

I lived in Hertitage Hill in Grand Rapids, Heritage Hill and Eastown were very Profgressive areas. Went to school in A2. Thought it progressive. Moved to St Joe, not progressive. Moved to Saugatuck thinking it progressive, and found population split 50/50 so I started a progressive democratic club. In looking for progressive areas, we have identified the lakeshore areas of Laketown Township, Saugatuck to South Haven. Many couples come to Saugatuck from Royal Oak, Grosse Pointe and Ann Arbor looking for retirement places because they think Saugatuck is progressive. They are what will make Saugatuck a progressive place. So come and take part in the progressive lakeshore movement. PS, I'm a realtor too and would be glad to help you.

[thar49228]

Originally Posted by mich2fla

Check out Saugatuck MI...known for unique shops and alternative lifestyle. It's a nice little town that is busy from May to October.

I think it's also known as the "San Francisco" of Michigan...for what that's worth.

[Alfonzo_LaMar]

I am not sure if anyone has mention it, but Ann Arrbor is the home of The University of Michigan so it's a real college town. Ann Arbor has basically grown around it. It's a very pedestrian-oriented town with lots of bars / places to go. If you are looking for progressive culture that is the place to go.

[vassarkristi]

Stay away from Sag and Bay City. Conservative Farmers everywhere. You might do ok in Vassar. They are putting a lot of money into their downtown.

[Rohan]

Ferndale is hugely liberal.. It was rated the 3rd Gayest city in America, and one one chart, one of the most liberal cities in America.

I personally wouldn't live there, and would choose Berkley over Ferndale, but don't expect tolerance for minorities in Berkley, it is 99% white and they like to keep it that way if possible. Ferndale is a progressive+liberal city.