michigan health (Detroit, Flint, Lansing: sale, real estate market, foreclosed)
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Bgirl you are right on the money, I was not saying that the books are cooked, but that the numbers are misleading, that also does not take into account the exodus from Michigan, people are leaving in droves.
I can understand people who wish to sit on the deck chairs of the titanic and say that things are not all that bad, "there is still 70% of the ship still out of the water and part of it is actually rising up out of the water" Its what we call SPIN.
I have talked to so many people in the last month and not one of them has said that things were looking up in Michigan.
GM and Ford tanked in April.
And they still don't get it. all those big pensions are going away.
We need to give tax breaks to people who buy cars that get 30+ MPG and tax people who have or buy cars that get less than 29MPG.
The big three keep fighting to keep the hummers, excursions , escalades on the market. Why I don't know they are not selling.
To be truthful the market for housing is slowing down all over the country and I fear a nation wide recession before it is all over.
We have an IDIOT first class in the white house and I fear how much more damage to this country he can do in the 1 1/2 years he has left.
We need a democratic pres. Some one who has an energy policy and and domestic policy and can get us out of Iraq.
Michigan is at the bottom of the pile of all 50 states.
There is nothing on the horizon that even suggests that there is hope.
Michigan is cold,taxed to death,and is like a woman/man who is 70, every one knows where she/he lives but no one want to go visit.
Hang on to that Michigan property, it will be worth 20% less in a couple of years and then it may start to go up in value if you are lucky,as for me I would rather put my $ in cardboard futures.
Good Lord...according to some of these posters all 10 million Michiganders might as well pack up, leave, and let the state go back to nature. What the heck?
Having just moved to this state last year from California, and having lived in Iowa, Texas, and Oklahoma, and in addition having friends all over the country, I can tell you with complete certainty that LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE! Yes things are tough here, and yes it will probably go down before it goes back up. BUT IT WILL GO BACK UP, if not now, then later! Every area has it's good and it's bad. Michigan is definately hitting harder times than everywhere else. But if everyone took the fatalistic attitude that some of these posters have, then we truly would be in the crapper with no hope of crawling out. It takes hope and faith, coupled with hard work and determination, to make it.
Believe it or not, I am a realist by nature. But being realistic doesn't mean the glass is always half empty. It's all perspective. Yes things are bad. So do you squeeze the lemon in your eye, or do you make lemonaide?
I was born and raised in the Mojave Desert in southern California. I freaking hate it, and could rattle of a laundry list of reasons why. Yet, I have family who choose to live there, as they have for decades, and LOVE IT. They don't want to move! So, my theory is the people that hate Michigan so much probably were born and raised here, and probably have always hated it here. The current economic situation just gives them more ammunition.
Bottom line...EVERY place in the world has it's negatives and positives! Let's stop the retarded pissing contest already!
The statistics don't take into account the folks that are already off unemployment because it ran out (without them getting hired again, I might add..). The most available jobs are the low wage 'would you like fries with that' type positions which don't pay enough for even a single person to survive on, let alone a household, and it almost costs you money to work there because of the rising gas prices. But, even those jobs are coming harder to come by... just in the past couple months, there are 2 different BKs in the Lansing area that I know of that have closed their doors.
OK, just to clarify on the stats (non-spun):
- The current "labor force" of Michigan is 5,073,394, as of March 2007. Labor force is determined as the number of people who are either working or who are seeking work but are "unemployed".
- The labor force in March 2003 was 5,032,065. That means that there are not fewer people in the labor force as you claim, there are more people (40,000 more). That means they are either: employed, seeking work, and/or on unemployment benefits. Once you drop out of these categories, you are no longer deemed part of the "labor force". If your theory were correct, the labor force would be shrinking. It's not.
- In March 2002, there were 4,488,100 people "employed". In March 2007, there were 4,316,200, a drop of -160,000 or so (mostly manufacturing, but obviously these jobs had spinoff jobs that were lost and a trickle down effect on other industries).
- From 1999 - 2005, Michigan's household income dropped by 11.2%. North Carolina: -11.2%; Utah: -10.4%; Indiana: -9.5%. Michigan was much higher than the national average historically. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/30/us...erland&emc=rss
I too agree that the national economy might be in for a hurt soon, as home sales in the U.S. in March were again the lowest in over a decade (after a dismal year of home sales), and home builders are going belly up around the country (and the large ones are bleeding profusely). Of course, they all blamed it on March weather.
Good Lord...according to some of these posters all 10 million Michiganders might as well pack up, leave, and let the state go back to nature. What the heck?
Having just moved to this state last year from California, and having lived in Iowa, Texas, and Oklahoma, and in addition having friends all over the country, I can tell you with complete certainty that LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE! Yes things are tough here, and yes it will probably go down before it goes back up. BUT IT WILL GO BACK UP, if not now, then later! Every area has it's good and it's bad. Michigan is definately hitting harder times than everywhere else. But if everyone took the fatalistic attitude that some of these posters have, then we truly would be in the crapper with no hope of crawling out. It takes hope and faith, coupled with hard work and determination, to make it.
Believe it or not, I am a realist by nature. But being realistic doesn't mean the glass is always half empty. It's all perspective. Yes things are bad. So do you squeeze the lemon in your eye, or do you make lemonaide?
I was born and raised in the Mojave Desert in southern California. I freaking hate it, and could rattle of a laundry list of reasons why. Yet, I have family who choose to live there, as they have for decades, and LOVE IT. They don't want to move! So, my theory is the people that hate Michigan so much probably were born and raised here, and probably have always hated it here. The current economic situation just gives them more ammunition.
Bottom line...EVERY place in the world has it's negatives and positives! Let's stop the retarded pissing contest already!
Great to see your positive posts. I too have lived around the country and find Michigan to be a pretty special place. If you are new to finding this board then I will clue you in to the fact that there are a group of regular folks who post here and typically have mostly negative things to say. They will counter with arguments that they are speaking the "truth". Still, they delight in coming to the board to post their negative opinions. Major glass half empty. Some of them have moved on to other states, and still they post their Michigan bashing here regularly. I don't get it... if they are so happy in their new life/state, why on earth would they take the time to visit the Michigan board? And for those who keep saying they are moving and hate it here, why do they keep coming around either? Jeez, you'd think they'd be putting all their energy into the new life they are seeking. If you are seeking out a new life or job elsewhere, sincere best of luck. There are some great places out there offering great opportunities. But people, if you are this angry about life, nowhere is going to fix that.
I'm pretty certain that online boards on not indicative of the views of the general population. Most folks out there are just happily living their lives, and are not online posting. As far as the chronically negative posters here, I think that it's simple psychology. Once we make up our minds to make a change -- be it job, relationship, or place -- we look for every reason we can find to help reinforce our decision. I'm just not sure why they feel compelled to come on here to set the rest of us straight.
So a sincere welcome to Michigan! And check out some awesome Lake Michigan sunsets. I think you will find they rival California's.
And remember people... Wherever you go, there you are.
Great to see your positive posts. I too have lived around the country and find Michigan to be a pretty special place. If you are new to finding this board then I will clue you in to the fact that there are a group of regular folks who post here and typically have mostly negative things to say. They will counter with arguments that they are speaking the "truth". Still, they delight in coming to the board to post their negative opinions. Major glass half empty. Some of them have moved on to other states, and still they post their Michigan bashing here regularly. I don't get it... if they are so happy in their new life/state, why on earth would they take the time to visit the Michigan board? And for those who keep saying they are moving and hate it here, why do they keep coming around either? Jeez, you'd think they'd be putting all their energy into the new life they are seeking. If you are seeking out a new life or job elsewhere, sincere best of luck. There are some great places out there offering great opportunities. But people, if you are this angry about life, nowhere is going to fix that.
I'm pretty certain that online boards on not indicative of the views of the general population. Most folks out there are just happily living their lives, and are not online posting. As far as the chronically negative posters here, I think that it's simple psychology. Once we make up our minds to make a change -- be it job, relationship, or place -- we look for every reason we can find to help reinforce our decision. I'm just not sure why they feel compelled to come on here to set the rest of us straight.
So a sincere welcome to Michigan! And check out some awesome Lake Michigan sunsets. I think you will find they rival California's.
And remember people... Wherever you go, there you are.
Thanks! Yeah I am new to this board and have already figured out that some people are just haters. I also look at the Tulsa, OK board because I lived there in the 1990's and it still holds happy memories for me. I was amazed to see how many negative posters just spew hate about the place! My point is you are right, you could pick a utopia and someone would complain about the sunshine and happiness! Also, it does seem like some people have a personal vendetta against a state...which is just silly. Move on people! You moved to another state, you hate it here and we all suck for not moving like you did. Get over it. I see no reason for you to keep warning everyone off. If someone is moving to Michigan they obviously have a reason (a job, believe it or not! or family) and probably are very aware of the potential issues they face in doing so. It just amazes me how many get on here and harp on and on telling someone to NOT MOVE TO MICHIGAN, IT SUCKS, ECT ECT...it gets old! We get it, you hate it here! Go post on your fabulous new state's board about how awesome it is!
Okay I'm done. Thanks for the kudos orchardman!
The statistics don't take into account the folks that are already off unemployment because it ran out (without them getting hired again, I might add..). The most available jobs are the low wage 'would you like fries with that' type positions which don't pay enough for even a single person to survive on, let alone a household, and it almost costs you money to work there because of the rising gas prices. But, even those jobs are coming harder to come by... just in the past couple months, there are 2 different BKs in the Lansing area that I know of that have closed their doors.
Exactly. The official unemployment rate can't be believed, not because of any "conspiracy" but because it doesn't count all the people who are still unemployed when their unemployment insurance runs out. My husband was completely unemployed for 10 months last year, but for the last 4 months of that he was not definitely didn't take into consideration that the job he finally got paid less than half of the one he had before and offers no benefits at all.
In other states with better economies, almost anyone can get a full-time job at a fast food or retail place and those jobs pay better than minimum wage. People I know who live in those other places insisted that my husband must just be lazy because he couldn't find a job during those 10 months. Here, retail jobs are even competitive - and those are part-time. I've been applying for retail jobs since last summer and haven't even gotten a call back, but it's probably because my availability is limited to evenings/weekends. I'm about to finish my bachelors degree in August and have been a professional writer for the past 5 years...it's pretty humbling that I can't even get a part-time cashier job to supplement the bills.
Sorry for a double post but saw that more responses had been written in the time I was writing the other post...
I am not a "hater". I actually really love Michigan, and that's why I moved back here after having lived in a more prosperous state for nearly a decade. But the economic situation really IS worse in Michigan than in most other states, and anyone who tries to deny that is not seeing what I'm seeing. Maybe they haven't experienced the economic downturns that many of the rest of us have. There are definitely people who are doing well in this state, but I don't believe they're the majority anymore.
I was only born in the early 70s so I don't know what it was like here before the auto plants started shutting down. Given the beauty of the state, I wish I could have seen it here when the economy was good to match. Yes, things are bad in other parts of the country too - the mid-90s boom is definitely over and many industries never fully bounced back after 9/11 - but Michigan's economy has been particularly hard hit. That doesn't mean everyone should leave MI, but I don't think I am giving up too easily on the state by wanting to live instead in a place where I can afford all my bills and can envision a good future for my children.
For the record, I am not a hater either. But, I will say that I am realist.
Realistically, I cannot sell my property without taking a huge loss (which is not an option right now). Realistically, neither my husband or I have had any promising turn outs with job prospects over the past year (almost 2 yrs). Realistically, a young single person and/or family in the middle class bracket can NOT easily survive in Michigan at this time when you look at the cost of housing, cost of transportation, and overall cost of living. You are seeing more and more young folks and young families having to move back home, join up with roommates, or work several jobs just to get by. Realistically, jobs are NOT stable at any level right now; I personally was laid off by several employers within a 2 yr time period and my hubby was laid off from 6 different positions in a year's time. My sister, who does have a supposedly stable job and several degrees under her belt, is looking at the possibility of being jobless by June 1. Realistically, there are 2500 applications for every open position; that makes for pretty poor odds. That is just what I see.
I personally love Michigan. I would not have purchased acreage here if I did not love this gorgeous state. However, as it has been previously said, the ship is going down. It will get worse and we all know this. There are those that will have to leave (possibly myself and hubby included depending on how things go in the very near future - all the while maintaining a mortage on acreage that we won't be able to live on or sell for a very long time ), and there are those that will wait it out. Bless both sides and my wishes for only the best. I do not tell all newcomers to stay away, but I will not hesitate to advise caution.
Bgirl again on the money, this is not about hate, it is about facts.
When the Detroit freepress takes out a front page oped to say "Lansing is doing nothing to stop the blood letting" something is dead wrong with this state.
I can only sell my home because I was in the building industry and built a 200k home for 58k.
I have many friends who work in the what used to be known as the real estate industry and is now known as the foreclosure industry, and they tell me that many people are selling homes and having to pay 20k+ to sell.
When I was in south Carolina and told an agent that I had 50 acres and a new cape cod with 30x40 pole barn and was having a hard time getting 189k for it, he jumped and said where is it, I can get a check in 2 days, then he slumped down when I said Michigan, then he replied "If you said any state but Michigan I would be very interested"
The people who call others haters are stuck in Michigan and have to love it.
I completely understand that when you have no way out you must call a pile of crap roses.
Well I have been called a negnancy for the last two years by many people in north Michigan, and now I am a true profit.
I have argued with many realtors over the past year that things were on a down hill slide and been told I did not know what I was talking about.
I totally agree with the poster that said "things will get worse before they get better."
This is totally what I see, they will get better.
But there is nothing on the horizon to start the uphill climb.
That means that we are at least 7 to 10 years out to stop the bleeding.
Jenny gramcrackers is not going to do anything, that is what happens when you elect a kanook for gov.
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Here, retail jobs are even competitive - and those are part-time. I've been applying for retail jobs since last summer and haven't even gotten a call back, but it's probably because my availability is limited to evenings/weekends. I'm about to finish my bachelors degree in August and have been a professional writer for the past 5 years...it's pretty humbling that I can't even get a part-time cashier job to supplement the bills.
), and there are those that will wait it out. Bless both sides and my wishes for only the best. I do not tell all newcomers to stay away, but I will not hesitate to advise caution.
