[JGatti]

Originally Posted by Crustedfilth

We might as well all move to North Korea since our governments are so similiar.

The gov should have done nothing. Let the companies fail that were going to fail and the companies that are competitve will thrive.

Either that or bail out the people who are hurting.

I'm so tired of people saying this. Let em fail. I am laid off from a paper company because of the automotive problems. PAPER. Bet you never would have guessed that 60% of our business was supplying corrugated boxes to who? Companies who supply parts as well as giant over sea's cartons to ship car parts, body panels, engines etc to other countries to be assembled. We lost an entire shift at our plant, and that's paper. Now think about the people who supply the steel, the glass, the plastic, the carpet, the upholstery, door knobs, rubber, tires, rims, brakes, hoses, and on and on and on who will be closing shop. Without the bail out a hell of a lot more people would be hurting than just the UAW members. Come on pleas think about the big picture before posting nonsense like this.

[Crustedfilth]

Originally Posted by JGatti

I'm so tired of people saying this. Let em fail. I am laid off from a paper company because of the automotive problems. PAPER. Bet you never would have guessed that 60% of our business was supplying corrugated boxes to who? Companies who supply parts as well as giant over sea's cartons to ship car parts, body panels, engines etc to other countries to be assembled. We lost an entire shift at our plant, and that's paper. Now think about the people who supply the steel, the glass, the plastic, the carpet, the upholstery, door knobs, rubber, tires, rims, brakes, hoses, and on and on and on who will be closing shop. Without the bail out a hell of a lot more people would be hurting than just the UAW members. Come on pleas think about the big picture before posting nonsense like this.

You think I'm immune? LOL

So the alternative is to keep throwing tax payer money at them?

[JGatti]

Originally Posted by Crustedfilth

You think I'm immune? LOL

So the alternative is to keep throwing tax payer money at them?

So let's start the next great depression? Have you had to look for a job recently? Things are bad and going to get worse. Companies are using this opportunity to crush unions and companies and salaries are going to drop drastically. The same jobs I did years ago and made $12-$14 and hour now pay $8-$9. It's not just production or automotive. Everyone is in for a rude awakening. There will be two classes soon enough. Rich and poor. No middle ground no decent paying manufacturing jobs that used to exist. That's the scary thing. This problem that has been ignored for the last few years is not going to just go away. Another scary thing is companies are taking full advantage of the unemployed and the workers have to just take it or leave it.

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by dagnabit9

Well, yes I can. Especially when the federal government gets involved in personnel decisions. Why didn't they do the same thing to the CEOs in the banking industry? The mortgage industry? The labor unions? What's next to be 'taken over' by the government?

I don't want to drag this too far off topic, but I can't tell what you're objecting to here, Driller. Are you objecting to the fact that Obama is stepping into Big Three decision-making, or the fact that he didn't step in on the others you mention? You seem to be saying both.

I am uncomfortable with this situation, but I'm glad to see someone acting instead of fiddling while Rome burns, so to speak. 'Cause it isn't Rome -- it's Detroit.

[Crustedfilth]

Originally Posted by JGatti

So let's start the next great depression? Have you had to look for a job recently? Things are bad and going to get worse. Companies are using this opportunity to crush unions and companies and salaries are going to drop drastically. The same jobs I did years ago and made $12-$14 and hour now pay $8-$9. It's not just production or automotive. Everyone is in for a rude awakening. There will be two classes soon enough. Rich and poor. No middle ground no decent paying manufacturing jobs that used to exist. That's the scary thing. This problem that has been ignored for the last few years is not going to just go away. Another scary thing is companies are taking full advantage of the unemployed and the workers have to just take it or leave it.

Oh I agree with you 100% but propping up companies is just prolonging the inevitable.

thankfully I have not had to look for a job...........yet. But my company is dying right now and its only a matter of time before the ax falls here as well.
all I can say is diversify your skills.

The economy is cyclical it will come back. When? Who knows, but it will.

[Driller1]

Originally Posted by Cliffie

I don't want to drag this too far off topic, but I can't tell what you're objecting to here, Driller. Are you objecting to the fact that Obama is stepping into Big Three decision-making, or the fact that he didn't step in on the others you mention? You seem to be saying both.

I am uncomfortable with this situation, but I'm glad to see someone acting instead of fiddling while Rome burns, so to speak. 'Cause it isn't Rome -- it's Detroit.

Not just Obama. I object to government being in private industry.

[JGatti]

Originally Posted by Crustedfilth

Oh I agree with you 100% but propping up companies is just prolonging the inevitable.

thankfully I have not had to look for a job...........yet. But my company is dying right now and its only a matter of time before the ax falls here as well.
all I can say is diversify your skills.

The economy is cyclical it will come back. When? Who knows, but it will.

I don't feel it is prolonging anything though. The problems with the auto industry should have been seen a mile away. True the auto companies were not ready and did not see the writing on the wall. In my honest opinion the start of this fall began as soon as the gas prices began to creep up and than peaked when it hit $4 a gallon. Prior to this people loooooooooved their SUV'S. They LOOOOOOOOOVED their pick up trucks, and even though they were wayyyy over priced the banks helped everyone make sure they could get em. Then as soon as the gas jumped people jumped. The biggest money maker came to a sudden halt and this was the start of Michigan's fall if you ask me. If there was ever a time in history when the government should have stepped in and regulated anything it was when the gas prices were getting out of control. Michigan was the first hit and I think it was due to the loss of auto jobs, then the drop in tourism, and then shortly after the housing market began to crumble. I think this has been happening for years. Hell when the Germans owned Chrysler how many fuel efficient cars were they coming out with? None. In fact they had the worst fuel efficient cars and trucks out of all of them. If you think about it every business failing now are all related in some way and effect one another more than any other companies. My point is I don't think most companies ever think about the rainy days or prepare for them, kind of like your average American. Do you think all the foreclosed home in Northern Michigan were owned by local residents? A lot of them ( I looked at) were owned by auto workers and others down state. It's all related and right now they need a life line. If not we're all going to be even more screwed than we have been.

[dagnabit9]

Well, I guess it'll be all for naught...we'll all soon be owned by China anyway. They're the ones financing everything that Obama is throwing into the smoking hole...

[xlabel]

Originally Posted by JGatti

If there was ever a time in history when the government should have stepped in and regulated anything it was when the gas prices were getting out of control.

Rep points to you. Yours is the first post I've read on any CD sub-topic that acknowledges what I believe was a major cause of the current mess were in now. It's kinda hard to pay a mortgage when your spending half of what a mortgage costs on gas to get back and forth to work. Even my gas miser 30 mph car was costing me $320 a month to get back and forth. Everything that lands on a store shelf is affected by the ridiculous prices we were paying. What can you do when an oil man runs the show for 8 years?

[JGatti]

Originally Posted by xlabel

Rep points to you. Yours is the first post I've read on any CD sub-topic that acknowledges what I believe was a major cause of the current mess were in now. It's kinda hard to pay a mortgage when your spending half of what a mortgage costs on gas to get back and forth to work. Even my gas miser 30 mph car was costing me $320 a month to get back and forth. Everything that lands on a store shelf is affected by the ridiculous prices we were paying. What can you do when an oil man runs the show for 8 years?

Short story. I was driving a van to work back around 9/11 and when the gas prices began to creep up. I was driving a full sized van each way and paid less than $30 per week for fuel. When the prices started to go up their were all kinds of rumors in the paper about gas hitting $3 and maybe even $4 a gallon. Sitting at our lunch table I read this article and turned to my fellow coworkers and said something along these lines( if the gas prices get that high or even start to look like they are going to get that high this state is screwed). They all poo poo'd my comment and I told em then my thoughts about how it will effect the auto industry and KILL tourism in this state, therefor kill the state as well. I'm not saying I'm a genius or can see the future, but if a non college grad can see what would happen why the hell could the people in charge not see it coming?
I often wondered if it was a deal with the gas guru's and old Bushy to have a last ditch effort at making outrageous profits in a short period of time before the gas mileage restrictions EVERYONE knew was coming came? I mean here is Bush a known oil family man in office acting like he was clueless the gas prices were rising. I almost put my foot through the T.V watching a conference with him when a reporter asked him what he thought of the rumors of gas breaking $4 a gallon? He acted all shocked and stuttered his word, " what? What was that? Did you say $4 a gallon? I, I knew the prices were a little high but I had not heard anything about $4 a gallon". It was enough to make me want to puke.