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I think it depends on the era when you graduated from high school. In my graduating class only 2 or 3 of us went on to college. The rest went into the factories becase that was where the money was. This was 30 years ago. So my reference point is a lot different then the actions of today.
Did you grow up in some sort of factory town? I graduated from HS in the early 70's and if you didn't go to college it was mostly due to the fact that you already had a job that paid a decent wage -- which was about $15,000 back then. I'd venture that most all who didn't go to college have done so since then.
Why go into debt and spend thousands on a degree that probably wont get you a job, and if it does it's a job that barely pays a livable wage? It's not a wise investment from a financial perspective.
Go to college because you want to, not because you think it will get you a better job (because it won't).
Your right, my doctor I see, he has only a HS diploma, as well as my dentist. I let them both operate freely on me without any training. Are you serious? If college education yielded nothing but debt all higher learning institutions would have folded long ago. We should go tell all of the MBA's at UM that they can expect no return on their investments, we also should notify every student at Harvard and Yale that their degrees will yield beans and the opportunity to work at Wendy's. I'm not sure I've met a sole that was enrolled while I was in college that just "wanted" to be there.
Did you grow up in some sort of factory town? I graduated from HS in the early 70's and if you didn't go to college it was mostly due to the fact that you already had a job that paid a decent wage -- which was about $15,000 back then. I'd venture that most all who didn't go to college have done so since then.
The poster has a point, MittenDweller82; it depends on the degree you're working toward. A degree in business administration equips you for everything and nothing. It's very hard to get a good job with it, unless you have connections already. I paid $15,000 for my Social Work degree and after four years in the field I was only making $23,300/yr, was living in one room and barely making ends meet. And some people get degrees a lot less useful than that, like Film Studies or (gasp) Liberal Arts. Right now even a law degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on, because firms aren't hiring and people are putting off legal proceedings, like divorces, that keep lawyers fed and housed -- they are a lot like elective surgeries that can wait until economic times are better. Bankruptcy attorneys are fat and happy right now, I daresay.
I have to say we live in a strange world, where a blue-collar job brings home more money and better benefits than a professional career. I would never wish poverty and hungry kids on the blue-collar population, but what exactly is up with that?
Why go into debt and spend thousands on a degree that probably wont get you a job, and if it does it's a job that barely pays a livable wage? It's not a wise investment from a financial perspective.
Go to college because you want to, not because you think it will get you a better job (because it won't).
It'll get you a better job than not going to college will in most cases. And it will lend you some security as you age.
I know guys who went into construction beause it was good money and they didn't need a degree. Now they're aging out of the field, too early to retire and have nothing to fall back on. Not a great place to be.
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I have to say we live in a strange world, where a blue-collar job brings home more money and better benefits than a professional career. I would never wish poverty and hungry kids on the blue-collar population, but what exactly is up with that?
This is why jobs are leaving our shore. The unions bled the companies dry. So now, no one has a job. At least the educated can follow the work. Not so for blue collar. They'd never work for the wages being paid elsewhere.
The poster has a point, MittenDweller82; it depends on the degree you're working toward. A degree in business administration equips you for everything and nothing. It's very hard to get a good job with it, unless you have connections already. I paid $15,000 for my Social Work degree and after four years in the field I was only making $23,300/yr, was living in one room and barely making ends meet. And some people get degrees a lot less useful than that, like Film Studies or (gasp) Liberal Arts. Right now even a law degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on, because firms aren't hiring and people are putting off legal proceedings, like divorces, that keep lawyers fed and housed -- they are a lot like elective surgeries that can wait until economic times are better. Bankruptcy attorneys are fat and happy right now, I daresay.
I have to say we live in a strange world, where a blue-collar job brings home more money and better benefits than a professional career. I would never wish poverty and hungry kids on the blue-collar population, but what exactly is up with that?
I AM THE POSTER CHILD FOR THIS AS WE SPEAK!
Even saying you did internships might not help because many of those companies are in hiring freezes...and some "sexier" places that people like to say they spent a summer or two at, such as Lehman Brothers, have flat out folded and are part of the financial markets crisis because they took a lot of investors' money and confidence with them.
I read somewhere on here that when things are rock bottom like they are now, it's a good time to reinvent yourself, and that this is a shakeout that will show survival of the fittest. I think that is 100% true.
If someone had told me I would spend so many years in school just to have to run north to take up a simple 2 year degree for what is most relevant to job stability and the ability to provide for families in any weather...I would have laughed...the federal GOVERNMENT came recruiting at the school and cancelled final interviews after they had already booked the flights, cause they had no money to hire anyone after closing budgets the day before! No lie, I got that call 10pm the night before and nearly cried...what the hell did I get the degree for then? I could have gone to school for only 2 years more after college and been making good money and doing what I want to do with my life.
But, when the economy does turn around, there will be people competing for the same jobs from the following categories:
1. Degree, no experience in the field the degree is in, or neglible experience
2. No degree, no or neglible experience in the fields in demand...technical skills might be outdated too.
3. No degree, tons of experience in the field
4. Degree, tons of experience in the field
#s 3 and 4 are going to have the best prospects if you ask me. 1 and 2 are going to get whats left over, degree or not.
Unless it's in a field where even straight out of school they need you like a desert wanderer needs fresh water...nursing and pharmacy seem to fit those bills. RN takes a 2 year degree, Pharmacy a 7 year degree...
Law I think is good if you can see the trends where law will be needed or can work for peanuts at a nonprofit or state job...or will go into your own business. I have always been told I would be great at law...but I can't trust my bread and butter to that in this economy of the next few years...I think it's more relevant in many fields than the MBA, which is getting cliche UNLESS it's from a NAME BRAND school (meaning, Ivy League or damn near)...
The poster has a point, MittenDweller82; it depends on the degree you're working toward. A degree in business administration equips you for everything and nothing. It's very hard to get a good job with it, unless you have connections already. I paid $15,000 for my Social Work degree and after four years in the field I was only making $23,300/yr, was living in one room and barely making ends meet. And some people get degrees a lot less useful than that, like Film Studies or (gasp) Liberal Arts. Right now even a law degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on, because firms aren't hiring and people are putting off legal proceedings, like divorces, that keep lawyers fed and housed -- they are a lot like elective surgeries that can wait until economic times are better. Bankruptcy attorneys are fat and happy right now, I daresay.
I have to say we live in a strange world, where a blue-collar job brings home more money and better benefits than a professional career. I would never wish poverty and hungry kids on the blue-collar population, but what exactly is up with that?
True, I pointed out earlier in this thread that my degree in Sociology, which has a reputation for being labeled "useless" is even put to use in our tough economy, I make decent money for my age (27). I agree, the world is becoming increasingly "unlike" traditional trends we have noticed for the last century in regards to educational attainment and earned income. Unfortunately, as our economy shifts toward being serviced based the pockets of high income within blue collar families will begin to disappear. More increasingly, high income will equal higher education, especially as employers become more and more selective with huge candidate pools.
There will certainly never be a "perfect" field to enter into, even the medical field will suffer after the majority of baby-boomers die off. Everybody, (exempt the elite: surgeons, ceo's, etc) will have to work for lower pay and lower wages, even with a long list of qualifications..the staggering amount of unemployed people allows corporations to make a case for lower pay. Yes, entering into a extremely specialized field of study is risky at any point, and should be done so with great research and caution even in the most vibrant economies. When I say that no degree is "worthless" I speak in terms of value, that as we go forward in the future it will be more and more mandatory.
True, I pointed out earlier in this thread that my degree in Sociology, which has a reputation for being labeled "useless" is even put to use in our tough economy, I make decent money for my age (27). I agree, the world is becoming increasingly "unlike" traditional trends we have noticed for the last century in regards to educational attainment and earned income. Unfortunately, as our economy shifts toward being serviced based the pockets of high income within blue collar families will begin to disappear. More increasingly, high income will equal higher education, especially as employers become more and more selective with huge candidate pools.
There will certainly never be a "perfect" field to enter into, even the medical field will suffer after the majority of baby-boomers die off. Everybody, (exempt the elite: surgeons, ceo's, etc) will have to work for lower pay and lower wages, even with a long list of qualifications..the staggering amount of unemployed people allows corporations to make a case for lower pay. Yes, entering into a extremely specialized field of study is risky at any point, and should be done so with great research and caution even in the most vibrant economies. When I say that no degree is "worthless" I speak in terms of value, that as we go forward in the future it will be more and more mandatory.
There are some degrees that are, in the context of what can readily find a person a job, worthless...however, it is in context, because there are many liberal arts degrees on the trading floors of the wall street firms...and that is the only place I ever see them used significantly. But you still had to go to the right schools for the most part to get into those places without a degree readily lending itself such as accounting, finance, business.
Sociology goes hand in hand with social work...I know people laugh at the degree unless people are going to the PhD level to research and teach...but I think people look at whatever is recession-proof and is in demand even when times are hard, and the majors that EASILY feed into that, are called the good strong majors. As well as the ones that just have a good REPUTATION whether they are currently useful or not...like MBAs from unheardof schools...lol.
I can remember way back in the day when for many, getting out of high school and getting in with one of the Big Three shortly thereafter meant a lifetime of good wages and job security. But the automotive plants near where I live stopped hiring new workers several years ago, and now no one even thinks about trying to get into one of them. That is yesterday's news. When I think of automotive workers with a hs diploma, I think of middle-aged men and women who have either taken a buyout and moved on, gotten laid off, or are still working in the plant where they started years and years ago and holding their breath every single day not knowing if they will still have a job tomorrow. It's very sad.
They started work on a new Chrysler plant here about a year ago and the big news around here was 900 new jobs. The media portrayed this probably to make it look like our officials did some great work by bring this buisness here. Needless to say anyone who has any experience with the automotive industry knew that the jobs would be transferred from the old plant that was closing. But it was mentioned that if they were to hire anyone they would need an Associates degree just to work on the line! So even for "factory" work you'll need a degree to get in!
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