[tuebor]

Socialism vs. capitalism is secondary (and beside the point, since I'm not advocating socialism); the primary fact about our system is that we live in a republic. Since ancient times, political theorists and statesmen have recognized that a republican form of government is threatened by extreme disparities of wealth among its citizens. In order to maintain a republic, the middle class must predominate; once the citizenry becomes polarized between the very rich and the very poor, the state risks collapsing into an oligarchy or ochlocracy (mob rule). In the US today, the slide toward oligarchy is obvious to anyone who is paying attention.

I bring up the Denison dunes case because it is a concrete local example of how the economic policies of the last 30 years have concentrated wealth and power in fewer hands, and how that concentration of power can affect those of us who aren't billionaires.

I'm not proposing restrictions on what the Denison estate can do with its property, nor am I proposing restrictions on what McClendon can do with his money, per se. Of course the estate should be able to sell its property to highest bidder, and of course McClendon should be able to bid as much of his fortune as he wants to. But why was he in fact the highest bidder? We should take a hard look at the distributional policies that made him so wealthy in the first place (and it is a matter of policy when we get to this level--I hope no one will try to tell me it's just because he's smart and he works hard). Why is this individual oil executive wealthy enough to outbid the combined resources of all those local governments and allied groups? And does that wealth give him the right to dictate policies to a community of which he is not a member? It's something to think about as we fill our tanks this week.

[djmilf]

Yes bydand, you do contradict yourself. You claim that one governmentally owned asset benefit (state parks and recreation areas) doesn't help the general public, but then you use another governmentally owned asset (public access launches) to enjoy fishing. Or are these public access launches privately owned?

Or is government access only "helpful" when bydand immediately and directly benefits from it?

Originally Posted by Bydand

I just don't see the benefit from expanding that system through the method you seem hell-bent on the state using in this situation.

bydand, you accuse me of "putting words in your mouth" (when I was only seeking clarification of your statement), then you turn around and put words into my mouth.

This method that I "seem hell-bent" upon was a suggestion that I offered up. I supported the proposal with facts drawn from a US Supreme Court decision, contending that the rules of eminent domain was to be determined by state governments, and from two exactly opposite Alaskan and Nebraskan statutes to specifically illustrate how two states can be diametrically opposed on the concept of using eminent domain for expanding state parks.

I also pointed out that I couldn't locate any Michigan law that either supported eminent domain or precluded eminent domain as a method for obtaining new state land. I even said in my post "the state of Michigan may or may not have the right to exercise eminent domain in the creation of more park lands" and I asked if anyone could cite any relevant examples for either the pro or con of the proposal.

If you actually read through to the end of my post you would have seen that I had agreed with your contention that the state of Michigan didn't exercise eminent domain over Denison Hills back in 1982 so the DNR probably didn't think that they had the right of eminent domain in 1982 and they probably don't think that they have the right today.

[tuebor]

The dunes are back in the news this week: WOODTV.com & WOOD TV8: Grand Rapids news, weather, sports and video | Meeting to discuss Saugatuck dunes

Meeting to discuss Saugatuck dunes

SAUGATUCK, Mich. (WOOD) -- The public will getting a chance to sound off on a battle over Saugatuck's Denison Dunes.

[. . .]

Now the township board is considering an agreement with the developer.

Hundreds of people are expected to turn out for Tuesday's meeting on the issue. The meeting begins at 7 p.m. at Saugatuck High School.

[suydam]

To re-open the discussion of eminent domain... I'm not sure what laws were used, but the Federal Governement has repeatedly taken private land to expand park-space.

In the 1970s they build Sleeping Bear Dunes and displaced generations of cottagers in order to make a park for the masses.

Isle Royale National Park was formed in much the same way, where people who had homes were given one-generation leases (which they quickly trusted to their infant children). When the lessors pass away, the rest of the archipelago turns into parkland.

It's not a new concept... and I'd totally support its use in this situation.

[M5MCCROREY]

Is there any new issues about this land? I am using it as a school project and I would like to keep my students up to date. Please email me at meggan.mccrorey@gmail.com thank you :-) Meggan McCrorey - Biology, Chemistry and GED teacher.

[Giesela]

Crap. I already felt like some of the most beautiful places in Michigan were places I could never afford to spend time because the rich have locked them up.
I am also a wildlife enthusiast and very concerned about loss of habitat.
I think this sucks and agree with tuebor.

[Bhaalspawn]

Maybe this means that those Dunes and that piece of lake shore has more value for luxury housing than it does as a state park? I can't imagine that purchaser paid all of that money in order to set up a garbage dump or to promote urban blight on that piece of land.

I'm not really opposed to the concept of eminent domain as long as the government pays the property owner more than the objective economic value of the property. As a general rule, eminent domain should be rare and when used, those whose property is taken should be well-compensated (to the point where the seizure of their property no longer bothers them).

[tuebor]

The conservation groups may succeed in buying most of the Dunes after all.

Aubrey McClendon to request higher density zoning to develop dune land in Saugatuck | Grand Rapids News - - MLive.com