[Coldjensens]

A stiking contrast was apparent to me and my daughter while in Southern Califronia this past wekend. The roads were pretty much all smooth and pothole/patch free. The difference was striking. Within a few miles, my daughter said "Dad, these roads are amazing" A fried we visited complained about how the two or three potholes on a local road have casued her recently aligned car to get out of alignement. We just laughed. I spend at least $1000 per year per car reparing damage caused by potholes and patches.

Of course there is the weatehr issue, but that in itself is not the answer for the remarkable difference. Most of the road surfaces we traveled on were re-paved wthin the last 10 years. Many much mroe recntly than 10 years. The answer was on the signs at gas stations. Gasoline in CA - $4.19. Gasoline in MI $3.69. Want roads like California's? Start paying $4.19 per gallon and we can have them within a few years. A 60 cent tax increase would allow fresh smooth roads pretty much everywhere.

Another thing I recently learned is that in CA roads can be repaved using a pavement recycling system where they just grind up the black top, mix it with emulsifiers and lay it back down smooth and clean. Unfortuantely it does not work in cold, wet, or extremely humid climates. Maybe in a few years, this technology will work here. Supposedly it cuts the cost of repaving by 50%. This is still a form of patch, not a repair or replacment for a failed road, but if the road base is still good and the blacktop is just worn out, this will eventually be a great solution for Michigan roads.

I hope that our current State representative, senators and governor have the guts to pass what will be a massively unpopular tax incease now, so the state will have the money to take advanatge of new technology and fix our roads before they get too much worse. Hopefully, the necessary tax will be much less than 60 cetns a gallon, but I prefer that they not pass some compromise tax the does not generate enough funding to really fix the roads and they have to continue to cut corners on repairs.

[michigan83]

I will gladly pay a higher gas tax for better roads. Not 60 cents per gallon more, but we don't NEED 60 cents more. California tends to go a little overboard with these things. But I would definitely pay a little more. I think Gov. Snyder has proposed raising the tax by 9 cents. I am on board.

[VM1138]

You can tell when you arrive in Michigan because the roads immediately become cracked and bumpy and full of pot holes.

I did the calculations once, and I think the funds could be raised to keep Michigan roads up with the national average (I forget the site I found that stat at) by raising the gas tax a few cents, which would result in maybe $1 more per fill-up.

Unfortunately it will never happen because people will freak out over even that small increase.

[kooks35]

Michigan is also the only state that allows 100,000lb trucks on the road. If you come in from Ohio you notice that the roads here use a different material. In theory the concrete here is supposed to last longer, but with winter weather I feel its actually worse.

I don't think its a tax issue either. The gas taxes in MI are in line with other northern climates and we have, by far, the worst roads I've driven on.

[Garthur]

I need to mention the obvious. Michigan is out of money. A lot of the state, county, and city maintained road departments don't have the money. About a year ago, several news stories came out that Detroit had so little money that they had decided to let the roads go back to gravel. When I first read this in USA today, I didn't understand what they meant, until I read further, they will let the roads crack up and as they crack into smaller and smaller pieces, the road will get ground up until they are just gravel.

[animatedmartian]

Funding funding funding.


Roads and bridges: Who pays for them and how? - YouTube

[kooks35]

State Gasoline Taxes - See The Gasoline Tax Rate In Every State

Michigan has the 5th highest gas taxes. Funding shouldn't be an issue. I'd look more towards waste.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by kooks35

Michigan is also the only state that allows 100,000lb trucks on the road. If you come in from Ohio you notice that the roads here use a different material. In theory the concrete here is supposed to last longer, but with winter weather I feel its actually worse.

I don't think its a tax issue either. The gas taxes in MI are in line with other northern climates and we have, by far, the worst roads I've driven on.

This is just a rhetoric point used by people who want to distract attention from the fact that we need to fix the roads. Less than 5% of the trucks on the road are anywhere near the limit and Michigan requires more axles for the heavy loads. It may have an impact on the condition of the roads, but it is a tiny impact. Not spending enough on the roads for the past 20 years is the biggest imact. Freeze thaw is next. Age/traffic comes next. The heavy truck issue is probably fiteenth or twentieth on the causes of road problems. And no. The amoutn of tax dollars that goes to roads in Michigan is nto on par with the amounts in nearby states. Plus we have fewer users paying for the same number, or more roads in most instances.

Maretials vary from place to place in every state. Mostly it is controlled by Federal standards since most roads have some federal money in them these days. Concrete generally lasts longer, but it is harder to patch and comepletely inflexible. It also costs a ton more. Asphalt mixes are pretty much the same, there are some differences, some types are experiemental. The same is true of concrete.

Ohio has more money for roads. One of the biggest reasons is the turnpike. The tolls pay for maintenance of the turnpike. However the people travelling through still buy gas and pay taxes on the gas. This generates money for roads that these people do not use. Thus, even with the same tax rates, Ohio and indiana would have more moeny for their roads. However I think both states also have higher taxes for roads. I know Indiana does, I cannot remember Ohio.

Even if Michigan could have toll roads, we are not a pass through state. Thuse we do not have thousands of people driving through our state to elsewhere to help us pay for our roads. Other than tourists (hunters) we pretty much have to pay for our roads on our own. I really do not care which pocket they take the funds from: gas tax; registration fee; sales tax; any way they do it, it is coming form my bank account. I do care about whether they do something to reduce waste and be more efficient. I think they are working on that. One of the new bills will prioiritized road work based on use (traffic) this makes more sense. Resurfacing roads that get six cars a day while heavily used roads fall apart makes no sense.They also need to quit wasting money on band aids and invest the money to really fix the roads for a change.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

A stiking contrast was apparent to me and my daughter while in Southern Califronia this past wekend. The roads were pretty much all smooth and pothole/patch free. The difference was striking. Within a few miles, my daughter said "Dad, these roads are amazing" A fried we visited complained about how the two or three potholes on a local road have casued her recently aligned car to get out of alignement. We just laughed. I spend at least $1000 per year per car reparing damage caused by potholes and patches.

Of course there is the weatehr issue, but that in itself is not the answer for the remarkable difference. Most of the road surfaces we traveled on were re-paved wthin the last 10 years. Many much mroe recntly than 10 years. The answer was on the signs at gas stations. Gasoline in CA - $4.19. Gasoline in MI $3.69. Want roads like California's? Start paying $4.19 per gallon and we can have them within a few years. A 60 cent tax increase would allow fresh smooth roads pretty much everywhere.

Another thing I recently learned is that in CA roads can be repaved using a pavement recycling system where they just grind up the black top, mix it with emulsifiers and lay it back down smooth and clean. Unfortuantely it does not work in cold, wet, or extremely humid climates. Maybe in a few years, this technology will work here. Supposedly it cuts the cost of repaving by 50%. This is still a form of patch, not a repair or replacment for a failed road, but if the road base is still good and the blacktop is just worn out, this will eventually be a great solution for Michigan roads.

I hope that our current State representative, senators and governor have the guts to pass what will be a massively unpopular tax incease now, so the state will have the money to take advanatge of new technology and fix our roads before they get too much worse. Hopefully, the necessary tax will be much less than 60 cetns a gallon, but I prefer that they not pass some compromise tax the does not generate enough funding to really fix the roads and they have to continue to cut corners on repairs.

Come up North. The roads here are crap. The only exceptions are a few places they have resurfaced freeways (shovel ready, etc). Other than that, lots o pot holes. My wife destroyed a tire 3 weeks ago. Not sure how SoCal swung good roads when the rest of the state is pathetic.

As a related side bar, we recently drove into OR and immediately could feel the difference. Not only were OR roads much smoother, they also seem to drain rain water much better. I've never figured out why CA roads tend to collect water so effectively, it's a hydroplaning test on a grand scale. I know, rhetorical question. They are designed and built cheap, that means flat as a pancake and crummy materials.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by michigan83

I will gladly pay a higher gas tax for better roads. Not 60 cents per gallon more, but we don't NEED 60 cents more. California tends to go a little overboard with these things. But I would definitely pay a little more. I think Gov. Snyder has proposed raising the tax by 9 cents. I am on board.

What happened to the gas tax increase money from the last 40 years? Everytime the gas tax is increased we are told the roads will be fixed but that never happens.