[beachmouse]

I've gotten into discussions elsewhere where the consensus seemed to be that it wasn't MSA, it was media market, and if similar-sized (and in some cases like Memphis significantly less affluent) media markets than GR can make it happen, then that's not a barrier to GR getting some sort of NBA/NHL team.

[AlohaHuey]

If the pro sports leagues came up with a top ten list for city expansions, GR wouldn't be on any list. Wishful thinking.

[actinic]

Would like to see GR get at least something higher than single A (Whitecaps). Kind of embarrassing.

[YAZ]

Better chance if GR moved closer to said teams.



Like the idea though.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by actinic

Would like to see GR get at least something higher than single A (Whitecaps). Kind of embarrassing.

Why? Grand Rapids is a Tier III city. It's not even as big as Des Moines or Omaha (but it's still pretty awesome). GR should start thinking more like Asheville, NC or Madison, WI than try to be an Indianapolis or Minneapolis. That might happen some day, but we'll all be dead by then.

[Sgt. Buzzcut]

As far as MLB or NFL it would be an uphill battle, I remember when Tampa tried to get MLB the Suncoast Dome was jokingly referred to as the "world's largest indoor garage sale", took 10 years to get a team and they were snubbed a couple of times. It was I believe 16th largest TV market in the U.S. at the time.

I say build it and they will come, a penny or two increase in sales tax for GR and immediete surrounding counties to help fund it. It could be used for:

- Major multi-band Rock festivals
-Truck and tractor pulls
-Motorcross
-Monster trucks
-Host for a new college bowl game ( It would be cool to see a Big 10 take on a Pac 10 in an open air stadium in Jan)
_ Maybe get the Lions or Tigers to come over and play some games
-Some competition Winter X games or snowmobile events.

In any event you have to have the facility in place to bring something to the table to lobby for a team.

[sheilajackson]

Originally Posted by danielj72

Since GR is the nicer of Michigans two largest cities I say we move the teams we have in Detroit to GR. Change thier names as well, the Michigan Tigers, the Michigan Lions etc. I think the name Detroit should be removed from anything that represents the entire state. Detroit has brought shame upon our entire state because of the conditions they have created in that city. They do not deserve to have a sports team carry thier name when the entire state supports these teams. The Tigers, Lions and Redwings are Michigans teams, not just Detroits.

Have to agree with you on the idea of moving. I enjoy Grand Rapids a little bit more than I do the Detroit area. It would be neat to see what GR could do with it.

[beachmouse]

Originally Posted by magellan

Why? Grand Rapids is a Tier III city. It's not even as big as Des Moines or Omaha (but it's still pretty awesome). GR should start thinking more like Asheville, NC or Madison, WI than try to be an Indianapolis or Minneapolis. That might happen some day, but we'll all be dead by then.

Just the core city population is a bad metric to use because of the different ways different places have incorporated/annexed over time. Remember that Jacksonville, FL is significantly larger than Miami, and you get the picture. Going by Metropolitan Statistical Area/Combined Statistical Area is a lot more accurate of a picture.

Grand Rapids-Wyoming MSA 774,000/Grand Rapids-Muskegon-Holland CSA 1,321,000
Des Moines MSA 569,000/Des Moines-Pella-Newton CSA 631,000
Omaha MSA 865,000/Omaha-Council Bluffs CSA 865,000
Asheville MSA 412,000/Asheville-Brevard CSA 442,000
Madison MSA 570,000/Madison CSA 628,000

Indianapolis MSA 1,700,000/Indianapolis CSA 2,064,000

So going by CSAs, twice as large as Des Moines, Asheville, or Madison, and about 50% larger than greater Omaha.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by beachmouse

Just the core city population is a bad metric to use because of the different ways different places have incorporated/annexed over time. Remember that Jacksonville, FL is significantly larger than Miami, and you get the picture. Going by Metropolitan Statistical Area/Combined Statistical Area is a lot more accurate of a picture.

Grand Rapids-Wyoming MSA 774,000/Grand Rapids-Muskegon-Holland CSA 1,321,000
Des Moines MSA 569,000/Des Moines-Pella-Newton CSA 631,000
Omaha MSA 865,000/Omaha-Council Bluffs CSA 865,000
Asheville MSA 412,000/Asheville-Brevard CSA 442,000
Madison MSA 570,000/Madison CSA 628,000

Indianapolis MSA 1,700,000/Indianapolis CSA 2,064,000

So going by CSAs, twice as large as Des Moines, Asheville, or Madison, and about 50% larger than greater Omaha.

No one goes by CSA's. Holland and Muskegon in no way, shape or form think they're part of Grand Rapids, and vice versa. There are vast rural areas between those metro areas as well.

I've lived in Grand Rapids 15 years. It looks and feels the size of Madison Wisconsin, and certainly doesn't feel like a metro of 1.3 Million people. The most upscale retail store is Macy's. It's just now getting its first PF Changs, lol. Don't get me wrong, I love GR. But it is what it is.

[beachmouse]

Holland used to be part of the Grand Rapids MSA and has actually lobbied to be put back into that description because the area thinks it will help them better attract businesses. There are also asome other technical reasons why it wants back in as well, and the whole I-196 corridor, where much of the growth has happened, is pretty interchangable with whether residents work in GR or Ottawa County. Muskegon also spent a fair amount of time as part of the Grand Rapids MSA.