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EQS EPA range numbers have been released at 350 miles for the RWD model and 340 miles for the AWD model.
It's pathetic.
At these price points (well into six figure territory), bring 1000+ hp and 500+ range or you're an also ran.
The bar has already been set.
Yeah, but it's the most aerodynamic car in history and the interior is fantastic. But the ugly exterior will keep buyers looking elsewhere unless all they want is a posh interior and super luxury.
All the reviews I've watched of it rave on its smoothness, quiet, etc.
Might attract a different class of buyer. It's not like people buying S class Mercedes give any cares at all about efficiency.
EQS aint my cup of tea. I outgrew RGB-bedazzling my computers when I was in high school. I sure has hell don't want it in a luxury car. Way too much screen and ocean of black piano plastic. Really sad to see it as an expensive option to get a hyperfingerprint panel spanning the dash. But then the alernative is a VW ID3 style Fischer Price tablet protruding from the dashboard as a guage cluster. Terrible design choices, interior and exterior.
At least it has a steering wheel and the seats do look comfortable.
Might attract a different class of buyer. It's not like people buying S class Mercedes give any cares at all about efficiency.
EQS aint my cup of tea. I outgrew RGB-bedazzling my computers when I was in high school. I sure has hell don't want it in a luxury car. Way too much screen and ocean of black piano plastic. Really sad to see it as an expensive option to get a hyperfingerprint panel spanning the dash. But then the alernative is a VW ID3 style Fischer Price tablet protruding from the dashboard as a guage cluster. Terrible design choices, interior and exterior.
At least it has a steering wheel and the seats do look comfortable.
The alternative isn't the other Europeans or Tesla, which is not a luxury car.
It's Lucid, who is offering both luxury and efficiency. And 1000+ hp.
It's pathetic.
At these price points (well into six figure territory), bring 1000+ hp and 500+ range or you're an also ran.
The bar has already been set.
A true luxury EV would NEVER have to do anything but home or destination charge.
You stop because you want to, not because you have to.
Who'da thunk a couple of decades ago that we would see the Germans getting pimp-slapped by the Americans?
Yea, they aren't all that high. Somewhat in its defense, Edmunds did a real world test and it looks like the EQS takes after the Taycan in that its EPA range appears to be a significant underestimate of its real world range with the lowest power, RWD 450+ getting 422 miles on the Edmunds test, well above its EPA rated 350 miles.
Edmunds has yet to test any edition of the Lucid, though I suspect Lucid will do fairly well. It's wild that the premium sedan segment would go to an American badge again.
The alternative isn't the other Europeans or Tesla, which is not a luxury car.
It's Lucid, who is offering both luxury and efficiency. And 1000+ hp.
As well as VW's offerings. Down on power, the Turbo S only makes 750. Really don't care though. I mean, if you're going to offer 1,000 HP for the same price as 750 I'm not going to say no but it's not a selling feature to me. They're fatties but even with 320 HP the base model Taycan is quick. It's not fast though. Roughly midway between the bought the badge BMW 530 and 540 at an inflated prices.
The bigger problems are it's 20 grand too expensive and the backseat isn't great versus regular sedans in the class. And then it's a P Car so ticking a few boxes for leather interior and premium/tech pack and suddenly you've added the cost of a well-equipped Camry (literally, that's $28,000 and there's another $30-40k of boxes left you could tick, some of which you probably should like the extended range performance battery, 150/400 DC fast charging, PASM, laminated glass, and some of which are pretty easy skips like the carbon fiber ground effects for $10,000. The carveouts in the battery for people with legs means you can actually sit there, but you have to first get your feet in their foot boxes which requires some minor gymnastics. Given that Porsches are mostly bought by older people (50+) though, it's an odd choice to make a mid-size sedan with a back seat you can't just get into like a normal car.
Still, of all of them the Taycan Cross would probably be the one I'd put at the top of the list. It's overpriced and has too screen for screens sake. At least there's no Fischer Price tablets protruding though The center console screen ala Audi has to go imo but apparently everyone loves big screens and more screens and cover every surface with screens. More improtantly I just want one. Model S I like as well, minus the yolk. But as you say, not a luxury car. It's American Electric Muscle basically and definitely where other makes can inroads where someone would choice something else despite the massive charging network advantage of Tesla.
Lucid possibly. EQS is more oppulent luxury where Lucid is understated luxury. I like Lucid's design direction more, a lot more. I still don't like the glued on tablet. But at least it's an interesting shape and looks like it's from the last ten years. I got a good laugh out of Edmunds putting up a picture of the Fisher Price tablet with its 1990s bezels front and center on their EQS range writeup. I'd really need to see some of the more mainstream offerings from Lucid. Air Pure at under $80,000 on paper looks good. It's somewhat attainable whereas the $160,000 Dream is, well, outside the range of what most people are willing to spend. It's going to be plenty fast enough for most people and 400 EPA range. Again, as mentioned nobody has really tested range on the Lucids and EPA range is not that useful as most of the industry is taking the lower number and then voluntarily downrating it (Ford, VW, Mercedes, GM) while Tesla takes the higher number. But even if it's 480 HP/400 miles of Tesla range, it's still good. Just how much luxury is left in the car after they cut the price in less than half? Down on perforamce versus Tesla, but IF it comes in at that price a lot of people would trade $18,000 lower price and better interior/build quality for ~1 second slower 0-60 time. I certainly would.
Lucid could break into the regular luxury market with the Air Pure (BMW 5, Mercedes E) as it's not too expensive depending depending on what they need to cut. The Taycan really can't. At $80,000 it's overly stripped and adding back in features a lot of people want in their $80,000 luxury sedans is astronomically expensive. Tesla is tapping the market of people that don't care about luxury but want electric muscle pretty much dry already, better to go at a different area of the market than tow to tow with Tesla. Fiat's trying that with the eMuscle thing they're working on. My guess is that's more Model S with different styling than the Mach-E which is a Model Y knockoff.
As well as VW's offerings. Down on power, the Turbo S only makes 750. Really don't care though. I mean, if you're going to offer 1,000 HP for the same price as 750 I'm not going to say no but it's not a selling feature to me. They're fatties but even with 320 HP the base model Taycan is quick. It's not fast though. Roughly midway between the bought the badge BMW 530 and 540 at an inflated prices.
The bigger problems are it's 20 grand too expensive and the backseat isn't great versus regular sedans in the class. And then it's a P Car so ticking a few boxes for leather interior and premium/tech pack and suddenly you've added the cost of a well-equipped Camry (literally, that's $28,000 and there's another $30-40k of boxes left you could tick, some of which you probably should like the extended range performance battery, 150/400 DC fast charging, PASM, laminated glass, and some of which are pretty easy skips like the carbon fiber ground effects for $10,000. The carveouts in the battery for people with legs means you can actually sit there, but you have to first get your feet in their foot boxes which requires some minor gymnastics. Given that Porsches are mostly bought by older people (50+) though, it's an odd choice to make a mid-size sedan with a back seat you can't just get into like a normal car.
Still, of all of them the Taycan Cross would probably be the one I'd put at the top of the list. It's overpriced and has too screen for screens sake. At least there's no Fischer Price tablets protruding though The center console screen ala Audi has to go imo but apparently everyone loves big screens and more screens and cover every surface with screens. More improtantly I just want one. Model S I like as well, minus the yolk. But as you say, not a luxury car. It's American Electric Muscle basically and definitely where other makes can inroads where someone would choice something else despite the massive charging network advantage of Tesla.
Lucid possibly. EQS is more oppulent luxury where Lucid is understated luxury. I like Lucid's design direction more. I still don't like the glued on tablet. But at least it's an interesting shape and looks like it's from the last ten years. I got a good laugh out of Edmunds putting up a picture of the Fisher Price tablet with its 1990s bezels front and center on their EQS range writeup.
Hard to ding Porsche on the Taycan pricing when it's a pretty direct contender to the Panamera with similar pricing. With that, the Taycan seems pretty directly targeted at Porsche's audience. Bring it down $20K across the board and Porsche probably cannibalizes much more of the Panamera audience so it'd be hard to see what the benefit to Porsche would be. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Taycan and Panamera when Porsche is ready to update them a few years from now. Do they really need both in the stable if Porsche is likely headed towards full BEVs?
Hard to ding Porsche on the Taycan pricing when it's a pretty direct contender to the Panamera with similar pricing. With that, the Taycan seems pretty directly targeted at Porsche's audience. Bring it down $20K across the board and Porsche probably cannibalizes much more of the Panamera audience so it'd be hard to see what the benefit to Porsche would be. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Taycan and Panamera when Porsche is ready to update them a few years from now. Do they really need both in the stable if Porsche is likely headed towards full BEVs?
Yeah, that's just Porsche pricing across the board.
They're pretty different cars despite the Panamera only being slightly larger than Taycan. Do they need both? Probably not. They're sedan/wagons and those don't sell anyway. They probably need the Taycan Cross though. It's much easier to get into as you don't have to do as much prezel folding to get your head in while simulatenously trying to pull your feet up to get them over the very high and wide door sills and into the foot box.
Neither the Taycan/Panamera are really going to compete with the 5/E in sales though. Too expensive starting at 80k for the Taycan, 94k for the Taycan Cross. You can price the 540 or E450 into the 70-75k price range. Most people probably do price them that way but then if you do the same on a Base Taycan you're up around 110k and now it's 40k more expensive instead of 20k. Again, that's just P Car pricing but that pricing does mean that they'll never sell 40-50k a year that the 5 and E do.
If Lucid delivers the Air Pure at $77,000 with 480 HP and 400 mile range, it potentially could. Have to wait and see how much cost cutting is necessary to get there, however. If you want the levels of luxury in a $75,000 E-class from your Taycan, that will cost that aforementioned $110,000 to get them which then you're at EQS and S-class money. Personally, I'd rather have the Taycan as I consider both the S and EQS to be ugly. That's just subjective though. They combine very nice materials in a way that I do not like and I'd just get the older interior design language from the E-Class. The newer C/S class is well, fugly.
I saw one yesterday in the showroom, & it stickered at $105k. It looked okay...C-...but the wheels were horrific looking. They were much different than the wheels shown in the links contained w/in this thread. They looked like an aluminum pie pan with 100 holes poked in it.
EQS first quarter US sales are in and they're pretty decent given the relative lack of fanfare, the slow ramp up, and the relatively limited trims at this point. These are very pricey vehicles, as is the S-Class, so the numbers aren't high but what's interesting is the split between EQS and S-Class vehicles with 2,091 units sold of the former and 4,817 units sold of the latter. I think given the fairly good reviews so far and the coming of more trims/options for the EQS, there's a decent chance that the balance between EQS and S-Class becomes more favorable.
The EQE though is probably the one to watch. At the lower priced segment it's in, the numbers sold should be substantially larger and that bulbous aerodynamic shape to me looks better with the EQE's proportions than the EQS's.
There's a larger capacity battery going from 108 kWh to 118 kWh. Specs are going to be better, but few details for the US market have been released including EPA figures. The European version also with the upgraded battery capacity has more details released: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...511-mile-range
They cited a 11% range increase which is a larger percentage than the battery capacity range. That might mean it's more efficient in addition to having more capacity. That makes sense given the improved regenerative braking abilities. For the UK version at least, there's also no change in price which makes it a much better value as ICE competitors have increased in price and the heat pump is now standard.
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I'd really need to see some of the more mainstream offerings from Lucid. Air Pure at under $80,000 on paper looks good. It's somewhat attainable whereas the $160,000 Dream is, well, outside the range of what most people are willing to spend. It's going to be plenty fast enough for most people and 400 EPA range. Again, as mentioned nobody has really tested range on the Lucids and EPA range is not that useful as most of the industry is taking the lower number and then voluntarily downrating it (Ford, VW, Mercedes, GM) while Tesla takes the higher number. But even if it's 480 HP/400 miles of Tesla range, it's still good. Just how much luxury is left in the car after they cut the price in less than half? Down on perforamce versus Tesla, but IF it comes in at that price a lot of people would trade $18,000 lower price and better interior/build quality for ~1 second slower 0-60 time. I certainly would. 