Eggs (cage free) (asbestos, live, prices)

[OutdoorLover]

P.S. I have never really viewed organic eggs, milk, and meat through the lens of animal welfare - I have only considered them in terms of my own nutrition. But organic standards do at least set minimum standards for animal welfare - and which some firms exceed. That is something I can get on board with. Thanks for starting this thread!

[chicagoliz]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

P.S. I have never really viewed organic eggs, milk, and meat through the lens of animal welfare - I have only considered them in terms of my own nutrition. But organic standards do at least set minimum standards for animal welfare - and which some firms exceed. That is something I can get on board with. Thanks for starting this thread!

"Organic" basically means just grown without pesticides. Far more important to me are labels such as Certified Fair Trade, and Certified Humane or Pasteured, grass-fed, etc. Sadly not all of these terms have codified definitions, and therefore may be subject to manipulation, but the first step is getting consumers to care about the labels to begin with.

[chicagoliz]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

I think the Market Basket brand cage free eggs are $2.50/doz for large. Organic are higher. Next time I am on an egg-spedition to Market Basket I'll do some reconnaissance.

Note that "cage free" doesn't necessarily mean anything. They may be technically uncaged, but they could still be in horrible, crowded conditions, with little space to move and going outside, even if they technically have access might be a frightening or impossible prospect. Pastured or free range, or certified humane should be the labels to look for, although be cognizant for hangers-on if the definitions are not enforced by any sort of authroity.

[redplum33]

Whole Foods gives a breakdown of the steps for beef.



Step 1 (Base Certification):

• On pasture except for finishing
• Must be protected from weather extremes

Step 2 (Enriched Environment):

• Feedlots must have shade and other enrichments
• 16-hour max transport time

Step 3 (Outdoor Access):

• No level 3 standard for beef cattle

Step 4 (Pasture Raised):

• Cattle on pasture for 75% of life
• No feedlots permitted

Step 5 (Animal Centered):

• Always on pasture
• No physical alterations allowed
• 8-hour max transport time

Step 5+ (Entire Life on Farm):

• Natural weaning required
• No transport time; entire life spent on same farm

Source: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078871QTD


More info: https://www.globalanimalpartnership.org/certified-gap/

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by chicagoliz

"Organic" basically means just grown without pesticides. Far more important to me are labels such as Certified Fair Trade, and Certified Humane or Pasteured, grass-fed, etc. Sadly not all of these terms have codified definitions, and therefore may be subject to manipulation, but the first step is getting consumers to care about the labels to begin with.

I actually avoid grass-fed steaks. I find they taste gamey.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by chicagoliz

"Organic" basically means just grown without pesticides. Far more important to me are labels such as Certified Fair Trade, and Certified Humane or Pasteured, grass-fed, etc. Sadly not all of these terms have codified definitions, and therefore may be subject to manipulation, but the first step is getting consumers to care about the labels to begin with.

No, that's not all it means. The cows that produce organic milk, for instance, can't be treated with growth hormones, and the milk must be free of antibiotics. 30% of the cow's feed must come from an organically managed pasture at least 120 days a year.

Prophylatic use of antibiotics in raising farm animals can be done for multiple reasons. It does produce a larger animal, so in animals raised for meat, it's increasing yield. But it can also be used to compensate for filthy indoor conditions that animals may be forced to live in. So the restrictions on antibiotic content not only mean something for milk drinkers squirrely about the prospects of drinking milk with low levels of antibiotics, they also translate to what should be better environmental conditions for the animals.

I want the cows living in humane, reasonably clean conditions, and given access to fresh air, sunshine and open space to roam, the pasture grass they are eating in warmer weather is an added benefit - a high fiber diet contributes to good health.

There are similar requirements for chickens being raised for organically labled meat and eggs, check this USDA tipsheet: https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/defau...Eggs_FINAL.pdf

I agree that Certified Humane has its own benefits, but it's not true that organic certification only refers to pesticides.

[chicagoliz]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

No, that's not all it means. The cows that produce organic milk, for instance, can't be treated with growth hormones, and the milk must be free of antibiotics. 30% of the cow's feed must come from an organically managed pasture at least 120 days a year.

Prophylatic use of antibiotics in raising farm animals can be done for multiple reasons. It does produce a larger animal, so in animals raised for meat, it's increasing yield. But it can also be used to compensate for filthy indoor conditions that animals may be forced to live in. So the restrictions on antibiotic content not only mean something for milk drinkers squirrely about the prospects of drinking milk with low levels of antibiotics, they also translate to what should be better environmental conditions for the animals.

I want the cows living in humane, reasonably clean conditions, and given access to fresh air, sunshine and open space to roam, the pasture grass they are eating in warmer weather is an added benefit - a high fiber diet contributes to good health.

There are similar requirements for chickens being raised for organically labled meat and eggs, check this USDA tipsheet: https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/defau...Eggs_FINAL.pdf

I agree that Certified Humane has its own benefits, but it's not true that organic certification only refers to pesticides.

Good to know it's a little more extensive than I had thought, but that "access to the outside" doesn't mean a whole lot -- the chickens may still be in overcrowded conditions, and may be "allowed" to go outside, but if they've never been outside they may be afraid to go.

I agree that one of the most important things to me is the way the animals are treated. They should have a decent life, and not just one of suffering from the moment they're born.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by chicagoliz

Good to know it's a little more extensive than I had thought, but that "access to the outside" doesn't mean a whole lot -- the chickens may still be in overcrowded conditions, and may be "allowed" to go outside, but if they've never been outside they may be afraid to go.

I agree that one of the most important things to me is the way the animals are treated. They should have a decent life, and not just one of suffering from the moment they're born.

I likewise agree that just because there are *some* standards doesn't mean that the animals are living like I imagined when I drew farms with a crayon as a child... and there can still be things that aren't covered, or loopholes that still allow some pretty odious practices. That said, standards that set minimum requirements for space, access to exercise and fresh air, for the quality of feed, and at least encourage sufficient hygienic practices to avoid animals just mired in their own waste, etc, progress like this is better than no standards.

[WestieWhitie]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

I likewise agree that just because there are *some* standards doesn't mean that the animals are living like I imagined when I drew farms with a crayon as a child... and there can still be things that aren't covered, or loopholes that still allow some pretty odious practices. That said, standards that set minimum requirements for space, access to exercise and fresh air, for the quality of feed, and at least encourage sufficient hygienic practices to avoid animals just mired in their own waste, etc, progress like this is better than no standards.

That's all nice and dandy but is everyone willing to see their grocery bill triple if industrial farms that are currently by no means organic, artisanal and cruelty-free are forced to adhere to Portlandia-style happy chicken standards?

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by WestieWhitie

That's all nice and dandy but is everyone willing to see their grocery bill triple if industrial farms that are currently by no means organic, artisanal and cruelty-free are forced to adhere to Portlandia-style happy chicken standards?

Generally speaking, farms aren't required to be organic etc - farmers choose to make these distinctions in their practices and products and the free market preferences support them. Costs do increase with healthier and more humane practices, but certainly 3x isn't normal.