Wakefield (vs Reading) (Boston, Cambridge, Lynn: houses, neighborhoods, buy)

[thinkingotherthings]

mjw -- thanks for the additional information and street view links of Andover!

gf --

Originally Posted by gf2020

I would not say that I am a Lynnfield evangelist, but I have lived on the North Shore for 31 years and in Lynnfield for the past 16 years. At age 55, with 2 grown children and a wife who is a local elementary school teacher, I do have a better than average knowledge of the communities being discussed here.

And I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge to help me with this major life decision!

Lynnfield is certainly the most "small town" community under discussion. If you decide that you want a larger town with more traditional suburban amenities like municipal sewer, natural gas, sidewalks on both sides of the street, a full time fire department, and smaller lot sizes, then Lynnfield is not the right choice, because you don't get all those things.

It would admittedly be an adjustment for both me and my wife, but sometimes change is good That's why I am interested to hear more about what you love about Lynnfield.

My feeling is more that spending close to $1.5 million in Wakefield, in this overheated real estate market, is not a wise decision. mwj119 touches on essentially the same point. You want to spend well over a million in Reading? Sure, I can see that. Melrose? Yes, it is a very popular community, very hot market, like Arlington. Andover? Absolutely, it has been an expensive town for decades. Lynnfield? Same thing. Wakefield or Stoneham? Let's tap the brakes and rethink that one. Just my 2 cents.

Let me clarify -- We would really only consider going up to 1.5M for one of our top tier towns. Reading, Wakefield, and Lynnfield are in our second tier (which to be clear is still a very good tier, not trying to take any shots, just calling it like I see it), and part of the motivation for considering these towns would be to hopefully get a great house for under 1.2M. Stoneham has fallen off the consideration list.

I get some of these threads confused, so I'm not sure if you grew up locally - maybe Brookline - or you moved to the area more recently.

Good memory, gf -- I have mentioned that I grew up in Brookline; more recently we were on the west coast for a few years before coming back east last year.

In any event, there are always those towns in the region that do better in the event of an economic downturn.

To clarify, when you talk about a town "doing better" do you mean in terms of houses retaining their sale value? If so, that is not a major consideration for us, since we are planning to buy for the long haul. Or did you mean "doing better" in terms of other factors, like maintaining relatively lower unemployment rates and store closings?

Winchester does better than Medford, Bedford does better than Burlington, Andover does better than North Andover, Reading does better than Stoneham, Lynnfield does better than Wakefield. You will generally be better off buying in the more desirable community, even if it means buying somewhat less house. Only you and your spouse can decide what trade-offs you are willing to accept.

I am surprised to hear that Bedford does better than Burlington. Actually I know very little about Bedford, other than that it has the Hanscom Air Force Base in it. But it's interesting you mention this, because Burlington is one other town we've started to consider. It lacks the walkable downtown (which I know I've made a big deal about in the past, but this market has truly humbled me!), but otherwise is reasonably well situated, has lots of restaurants, decent schools, safe neighborhoods, and is priced like the rest of our second tier towns (I do see new constructions going for 1.25M-1.5M, but otherwise staying under 1.2M seems doable). So at the risk of opening another can of worms, would love to get your or others' thoughts on Burlington and Bedford

[GeoffD]

I think the Bedford does better than Burlington comment was true in 1990. The town has seen a big demographic shift. $118k median household income. 56% college educated. I imagine in the public schools, it’s a way higher fraction of college educated parents than 56%. There are a bunch of towns that made that shift. If the bottom dropped out like it did at the S&L meltdown, there wouldn’t be the same disparity in property price correction.

[thinkingotherthings]

Originally Posted by ma-metrowest

As Thoreau would say: Simplify, simplify, simplify.

As I would say, Thoreau could have just said "Simplify."

Anyways, you are overthinking. I know because I massively overthink as well, especially about a place to live. In your case, go with the best schools and just what feels right. The obsession with having a town with the exact right downtown for you is in the end a negligible desire when you're considering towns that are literally a five-minute drive from each other. If you prefer the downtown of Reading or Wakefield, you can spend your downtime there. There's no rule that says you are beholden to the town center only in the town in which you live.

I know, I know. There's something that just "feels" nice about having a cool town center to feel like "your own." But there can also be satisfaction with redefining the parameters and really asking what makes you happy. For instance, I grew up in Peabody but preferred hanging out in Salem. But, and here's the thing, I also really liked going to a place like Lynn Woods for nature. So "my town" in my mind was not limited by arbitrary town borders, but more like a mix of charming downtown of Salem, nice place to call home in Peabody, and escape to nature in Lynn. You can have the same, if you allow yourself to deviate from the boundaries of what's clearly a very focused desire.

Thanks ma-metrowest, fair point. As I'd mentioned I have indeed given up on having a walkable town center as a strict requirement (of course it would still be nice to have). That said, I still think we want to end up somewhere that doesn't feel too sparse or isolated.

[BosYuppie]

Bedford and Burlington are a jump ball. In terms of the local economy they are functionally the same. (The mall, the new developments, and the local office parks). Your kid won't end up in the crips if you choose the ”worse” of those two towns.

[robr2]

I live in Burlington and lived in Bedford for a couple of years.

Bedford is a nice town. Not a ton to do and with Great Rd. as the main cross town road, traffic gets heavy during the day. Great schools, nice neighborhoods, Bedford Gardens near the base/Hartwell Rd is mainly duplexes that were once base housing seems "poor" compared to the rest of the town. I always felt that Bedford has an inferiority complex vis-a-vis Lexington, Concord, and Carlisle. The Bedford flag is touted as the first battle flag but the revolution bypassed the town.

Burlington has always had a lot of commercial and retail development and I sometimes say it's the biggest small town around. There are only 26K residents but the daytime population surges up to over 100K. Burlington has been seeing rising home prices for the past decade as people are priced out of Lexington, Winchester, and even Bedford. New colonials at $1.5 are a bargain compared to those other towns especially at under a $10 mill rate. Under $600K is a teardown for the most part and the new homes can touch $1.5. Schools are good, lots of kids activities, summer things on the common, very diverse. One of the first 1:1 tech schools in the state with all students getting some sort to tech device beginning in Kindergarten. No charge for school buses or school sports/activities. A walkable town center is a want for lots of folks in town but it's never going to happen. There are plenty of local offerings between Winn St. and Pontos Ave.:

- Bagel Bar
- New Jang Su Korean BBQ
- Used Book Superstore
- Raj and Rana's Indian Grocery
- Hollywood Shoe Repair
- Schoolhouse Ice Cream
- True North Coffee Shop
- Sweet Ginger Chinese
- Al Maidah Indian
- Halal Eats
- and many others.

They're there, just in multiple plazas and in a disorganized, not very pretty fashion.

I mentioned before, a walkable is center in nice but once the kids get into friend groups and activities, being able to sit outside the coffee shop with a nice latte and croissant gets replaced by Dunkins regulah and a 50 pack of munchkins being eaten in the minivan on the way to the field/studio/gym/etc.

[mwj119]

Originally Posted by robr2

I mentioned before, a walkable is center in nice but once the kids get into friend groups and activities, being able to sit outside the coffee shop with a nice latte and croissant gets replaced by Dunkins regulah and a 50 pack of munchkins being eaten in the minivan on the way to the field/studio/gym/etc.

Ahhh man, ain't that the truth.

[thinkingotherthings]

Originally Posted by BosYuppie

Bedford and Burlington are a jump ball. In terms of the local economy they are functionally the same. (The mall, the new developments, and the local office parks). Your kid won't end up in the crips if you choose the ”worse” of those two towns.

Originally Posted by robr2

I live in Burlington and lived in Bedford for a couple of years.

Bedford is a nice town. Not a ton to do and with Great Rd. as the main cross town road, traffic gets heavy during the day. Great schools, nice neighborhoods, Bedford Gardens near the base/Hartwell Rd is mainly duplexes that were once base housing seems "poor" compared to the rest of the town. I always felt that Bedford has an inferiority complex vis-a-vis Lexington, Concord, and Carlisle. The Bedford flag is touted as the first battle flag but the revolution bypassed the town.

Burlington has always had a lot of commercial and retail development and I sometimes say it's the biggest small town around. There are only 26K residents but the daytime population surges up to over 100K. Burlington has been seeing rising home prices for the past decade as people are priced out of Lexington, Winchester, and even Bedford. New colonials at $1.5 are a bargain compared to those other towns especially at under a $10 mill rate. Under $600K is a teardown for the most part and the new homes can touch $1.5. Schools are good, lots of kids activities, summer things on the common, very diverse. One of the first 1:1 tech schools in the state with all students getting some sort to tech device beginning in Kindergarten. No charge for school buses or school sports/activities. A walkable town center is a want for lots of folks in town but it's never going to happen. There are plenty of local offerings between Winn St. and Pontos Ave.:

- Bagel Bar
- New Jang Su Korean BBQ
- Used Book Superstore
- Raj and Rana's Indian Grocery
- Hollywood Shoe Repair
- Schoolhouse Ice Cream
- True North Coffee Shop
- Sweet Ginger Chinese
- Al Maidah Indian
- Halal Eats
- and many others.

They're there, just in multiple plazas and in a disorganized, not very pretty fashion.

I mentioned before, a walkable is center in nice but once the kids get into friend groups and activities, being able to sit outside the coffee shop with a nice latte and croissant gets replaced by Dunkins regulah and a 50 pack of munchkins being eaten in the minivan on the way to the field/studio/gym/etc.

Thanks for this detailed insight on Burlington. Seems like another solid choice. It helps to expand our option set given how little inventory there is these days. Although in Burlington my wife only wants to consider the Fox Hill neighborhood since it is the highest rated elementary school. I am not able to convince her that the other schools which are "only" a 7 on test scores are still very good and will continue to improve by the time our son is old enough to start school..

[BosYuppie]

Following the school scores is a great way to find an affulent, white (maybe asian) neighborhood. I'm saying this with cynicism.

[thinkingotherthings]

Originally Posted by BosYuppie

Following the school scores is a great way to find an affulent, white (maybe asian) neighborhood. I'm saying this with cynicism.

Why do you consider affluence and white or asian populations to be negatives?

While I am aware of the problems with using test scores as a proxy for school quality, the way I see it is that test scores reflect some combination of teacher skill, peer intelligence, and community focus on education. To what extent a particular's school high test scores are attributable to each individual component is not particularly important because they all play a role in increasing my child's probability of receiving a great education and having a successful career.

Schools in affluent neighborhoods also tend to have fewer disruptive students. Disruptive students make it more difficult for everyone else to learn; they also make teachers' jobs less enjoyable, so good teachers will gravitate toward schools in more affluent areas if they are able to.

I'm not saying that exposing my child to peers with diverse socioeconomic backgrounds doesn't have any benefit, but it is not nearly as important as the other factors I mentioned, in my opinion.

[thinkingotherthings]

gf2020, apologies for asking you earlier in this thread what you love about Lynnfield – I just remembered that you already addressed that question in a prior thread of mine: https://www.city-data.com/forum/60833121-post19.html