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Your unwavering commitment to a "walkable downtown" with numerous and diverse dining options is a bit unrealistic, balanced against your other requirements. I believe you are living in Waltham now. Just buy in Waltham, if that is what you are used to. Or, don't buy, continue to rent and see what happens with the market.
You have received dozens of recommendations and you can find fault with all of them. Comparing one town against another town is a frustrating experience. I always suggest to first time buyers that they should identify the town (singular) that they want to live in and then wait for the right house to come along. It sounds like Melrose or Arlington would be on that short list, for example. Figure out which one it is and then wait. Make sure you are working with a buyers agent from that community, they will have access to local knowledge, pocket listings, etc. You also need to be more flexible. This is your first house, it is unlikely to be your forever house.
Your unwavering commitment to a "walkable downtown" with numerous and diverse dining options is a bit unrealistic, balanced against your other requirements. I believe you are living in Waltham now. Just buy in Waltham, if that is what you are used to. Or, don't buy, continue to rent and see what happens with the market.
Waltham, Somerville, Cambridge, Boston ... any other compelling 'downtown' either gets stale after 24 months or it's well outside a Burlington commute (e.g., Newburyport).
Beverly might have the restaurant density OP is seeking, though that's highly dependent on preference. Newton center has density, but most of the options appeal to the 9-5 crowd. Andover? Perhaps. Regardless, they've all be discussed at this point.
Suggestions like Natick are ridiculous to me. Is the town center architecturally nice? Sure, but there's hardly any density to the town center. I don't think someone used to urban offerings is going to find it compelling for long.
I live near a 'downtown' with perfectly serviceable amenities like a brewery, restaurant, some fine dive bars, and diverse takeout options. This said, my family spends at least 80% of our time in Worcester, Prov, Cambridge, or other 'downtowns'/main st. where the options are more robust and the experiences are 'new' or at least infrequent.
Also, by definition in New England, any house near a historic town center (Arlington, Belmont, Lexington, Winchester, etc) is likely going to be historic or older too, which often mean smaller and needing at least some updates. They aren't likely to be 4+ bedroom, 2+ bathroom, completely modernized/renovated unless you're talking at least $2M. Look at historical sales over the past 5 years and you'll see there aren't many houses that meet your criteria even if they all hit the market tomorrow.
We had similar criteria to you (don't we all?) and even with a budget of up to $2M, it just didn't matter - the house we wanted didn't exist in the location we thought we wanted. So we compromised a bit on location (seriously just a bit - we're biking distance to town/HS, but not walking) to get the house we want. I suspect you'll have to do the same.
The only reason Burlington fell off our list was because it lacks a walkable downtown.. I don't know if we can compromise on that, especially because I don't think there are any immediate towns with nice walkable downtowns nearby? Woburn's looks like the closest, and that one looks so-so in terms of cuisine variety and general charm.
Woburn, Lexington, Reading are all within a 15 minute drive if the "downtown" is so important to you.
I believe I said before that the walkable downtown will become less important once your kids are in school and activities. You'll be rushing to and fro and that leisurely Saturday morning coffee and stroll will be history.
Also, Burlington has a couple of mixed use areas (The District, 3rd Ave.) that give you many of the same choices for dining, shopping, services that you may be looking for. Plus there are many hidden gems in town away from the heavy retail area that once you discover, you may come to love even though you have to drive to get there.
Waltham, Somerville, Cambridge, Boston ... any other compelling 'downtown' either gets stale after 24 months or it's well outside a Burlington commute (e.g., Newburyport).
Beverly might have the restaurant density OP is seeking, though that's highly dependent on preference. Newton center has density, but most of the options appeal to the 9-5 crowd. Andover? Perhaps. Regardless, they've all be discussed at this point.
Suggestions like Natick are ridiculous to me. Is the town center architecturally nice? Sure, but there's hardly any density to the town center. I don't think someone used to urban offerings is going to find it compelling for long.
I live near a 'downtown' with perfectly serviceable amenities like a brewery, restaurant, some fine dive bars, and diverse takeout options. This said, my family spends at least 80% of our time in Worcester, Prov, Cambridge, or other 'downtowns'/main st. where the options are more robust and the experiences are 'new' or at least infrequent.
I don't agree with this take at all. A nice-enough downtown is all some people really need. Making some arbitrary cutoff at Waltham--but not Newton or Needham--doesn't make any sense to me. It's like when someone says the only 'real city' in the US is NYC and everything else is just a waste of time. I mean, sure, maybe if you're Tennessee Williams, but the OP explicitly said they didn't want Cambridge or Somerville.
I don't agree with this take at all. A nice-enough downtown is all some people really need. Making some arbitrary cutoff at Waltham--but not Newton or Needham--doesn't make any sense to me. It's like when someone says the only 'real city' in the US is NYC and everything else is just a waste of time. I mean, sure, maybe if you're Tennessee Williams, but the OP explicitly said they didn't want Cambridge or Somerville.
There’s a stark difference between living in a suburban setting with immediate access to Cambridge, and living within Cambridge … particularly at OPs price point.
OP has mentioned restaurants at least once and if those are the amenities they’re seeking the majority of ‘downtowns’ do in fact get stale after a while, whether that be do to a lack of diversity or because your preferred establishment is eventually replaced by a bank or ambulatory care center.
Been there, done that multiple times over. I do like being near a small ‘downtown’, but the ‘walkable’ constraint, as pointed out by others, places an incredible burden on inventory/options.
Melrose schools are average for the area - average is, well, OK; too many people these days pay a lot more for "good schools" than they really should unless they expect to outsource education to teachers almost entirely (hint: that's a chump idea, though a common one these days). The school administration is very, well, insider-y, and historically lots of turnover for teachers. Melrose is within the territory for Mystic Valley Regional Charter School. The city benefits from a lot of commuting options in a choice spot surrounded on 3 sides by substantial parkland.
Your unwavering commitment to a "walkable downtown" with numerous and diverse dining options is a bit unrealistic, balanced against your other requirements. I believe you are living in Waltham now. Just buy in Waltham, if that is what you are used to. Or, don't buy, continue to rent and see what happens with the market.
You have received dozens of recommendations and you can find fault with all of them. Comparing one town against another town is a frustrating experience. I always suggest to first time buyers that they should identify the town (singular) that they want to live in and then wait for the right house to come along. It sounds like Melrose or Arlington would be on that short list, for example. Figure out which one it is and then wait. Make sure you are working with a buyers agent from that community, they will have access to local knowledge, pocket listings, etc. You also need to be more flexible. This is your first house, it is unlikely to be your forever house.
Yes, I am in Waltham. But we are concerned that the schools in Waltham are not good enough, and the private schools are too expensive (house prices are not low enough in Waltham to offset the cost of private schooling, I think).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacconn
Also, by definition in New England, any house near a historic town center (Arlington, Belmont, Lexington, Winchester, etc) is likely going to be historic or older too, which often mean smaller and needing at least some updates. They aren't likely to be 4+ bedroom, 2+ bathroom, completely modernized/renovated unless you're talking at least $2M. Look at historical sales over the past 5 years and you'll see there aren't many houses that meet your criteria even if they all hit the market tomorrow.
We had similar criteria to you (don't we all?) and even with a budget of up to $2M, it just didn't matter - the house we wanted didn't exist in the location we thought we wanted. So we compromised a bit on location (seriously just a bit - we're biking distance to town/HS, but not walking) to get the house we want. I suspect you'll have to do the same.
This is a fair point. If you don't mind sharing, what town did you end up in and at what sale price (feel free to ignore if you prefer not to answer).
Quote:
Originally Posted by robr2
Woburn, Lexington, Reading are all within a 15 minute drive if the "downtown" is so important to you.
I believe I said before that the walkable downtown will become less important once your kids are in school and activities. You'll be rushing to and fro and that leisurely Saturday morning coffee and stroll will be history.
Also, Burlington has a couple of mixed use areas (The District, 3rd Ave.) that give you many of the same choices for dining, shopping, services that you may be looking for. Plus there are many hidden gems in town away from the heavy retail area that once you discover, you may come to love even though you have to drive to get there.
You might be right about that, but the proximity to a downtown of sorts is not only for me and my wife, but also for our kid (or kids if we have another). I was fortunate enough to grow up in Brookline, near Coolidge Corner, and it was just awesome to have a place like that with so many things to do and places to eat, for meeting up with friends, within walking distance of my house. Looking back I guess that was more of a privelege than I realized at the time. And although I can't afford Brookline now, I want my kid(s) to be able to have a similar experience, without needing to depend on me or public transit for going out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom
I don't agree with this take at all. A nice-enough downtown is all some people really need. Making some arbitrary cutoff at Waltham--but not Newton or Needham--doesn't make any sense to me. It's like when someone says the only 'real city' in the US is NYC and everything else is just a waste of time. I mean, sure, maybe if you're Tennessee Williams, but the OP explicitly said they didn't want Cambridge or Somerville.
Yes, I do feel that I would be happy with "nice enough". Doesn't need to have all the restaurant variety in the world, but for example all of the towns I listed in my top tier in the first post I think would suffice. I don't get bored of good restaurants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Larsen
Melrose schools are average for the area - average is, well, OK; too many people these days pay a lot more for "good schools" than they really should unless they expect to outsource education to teachers almost entirely (hint: that's a chump idea, though a common one these days). The school administration is very, well, insider-y, and historically lots of turnover for teachers. Melrose is within the territory for Mystic Valley Regional Charter School. The city benefits from a lot of commuting options in a choice spot surrounded on 3 sides by substantial parkland.
Oh wow, I hadn't heard that before. Do you have direct experience with the Melrose school system?
I will also mention that one other town we've started reconsidering – even though we had initially nixed it over school quality concerns – is Stoneham. Taking a closer look at the school rankings, while not top tier, Stoneham schools do appear to be a notch above Woburn and Waltham, maybe on par with Melrose (or is that too wishful thinking?).
On greatschools.org for example (and I know I know, no ranking is perfect, some of it is partially reflecting socioeconomic diversity etc etc, but still – it seems a better barometer than anything else for school systems we are unfamiliar with):
South elementary school is rated 8 (7 on test scores)
Stoneham Central Middle School is rated 8 (8 on test scores)
Stoneham High is rated 6 (but 8 on test scores; and was bestowed a "College Success Award" by greatschools.org, for whatever that's worth)
And I think I remember hearing that Stoneham has a new high school being built? And it has a decent downtown of its own, while not being too far from the (admittedly better) Melrose and Winchester downtowns either.
I think it is also reasonable to expect all the towns within 128 to continue upscaling as young professional families like ours become less able to afford the blue chip towns – both in terms of school quality and downtown amenities. Now, as far as school quality goes, initially this was not something we wanted to take that gamble on. But with Stoneham, given that the schools are already (apparently) decent, it seems like less of a risk – especially with an 8-rated elementary school.
Also, my buyer's agent made a very interesting point that I hadn't considered before: he said that the top universities might have quotas around how many students they admit from each school district; so from that perspective my kid might have a better chance of getting into a top university being one of the best students in a decent/good school district rather than an average student in a top tier school district.
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