Cultural Divide in the Pioneer Valley (Boston, Springfield: apartments, limousine, exemptions)

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Working class towns vote for Trump. College educated towns don't. Doesn't matter whether it's Western Mass or Tennessee or Cary NC. You can look at the US census data for percent with a bachelors degree or better and have very high correlation with populist politics. The biggest difference between New England and the South is religion. Church participation in New England is extremely low. Four of the New England states rank as the bottom 4 for church participation. I doubt you'll find a school system teaching creationism in New England.

^^^True. You'd probably have to take a survey. About all I know is that when I lived in Amherst there was a bit of a distinction between town and gown. There was some resentment towards the "arrogant college professors." They didn't have to work very much and they seemed to always be bragging about their sabbaticals. They had the academic types, the middle class, the students (a lot!), and a few poor people.

In Northampton, during gentrification, the residents resented the newcomers. The residents would paint signs that said, "No gentrification." The new residents, mostly from NYC, looked down upon the locals and thought they were hicks and were stupid. Now most of the former residents have probably moved to somewhere on the outskirts of Northampton, maybe Easthampton, or they had enough money to stay, and just grin and bear it.

Maybe it's political differences that you want to know about? Northampton and Amherst (to me) are so knee jerk radical left that I moved away. I'm the type of person who takes politics on a case by case basis.

Ware is one of the worst towns in the state for poverty and has the highest population of drug addicts in the state. It's that way because Boston cut it off from the rest of the country by the construction of the Quabbin Resevoir back in the 1930s. So they were left with nothing but a few dying, now dead, mills. Ware is inbred and a pathetic place. Most people who wanted to do anything with their lives probably moved out long ago. In a word, the place is very backwards. Someone should help them--but how? Build a massive bridge over the reservoir so these forgotten people can get to some kind of a job? Not gonna happen.

My family goes back for a few generations in Northampton but they were not poor, working class. Not everyone who lived in Northampton was blue collar. My mother, middle class, always wished to attend Smith College when she grew up. So you see, middle class (semi educated father who worked in an office) didn't necessarily resent the Smithies.

But yes, there is/was some tension between rich and poor and with the influx of NYers there was resentment. That's just normal and mostly, you would never know about it because they kept it to themselves. I don't think too many people talk about who voted for whom. Northampton is known for its lesbian community. Blue collar workers still live and work there. Probably there is some quiet grumbling but all in all, people get along. Our churches--many people still do go to church but our churches have become more open minded and welcoming to all. Our churches mostly stay out of politics and stick with helping the poor. There are a few that give sanctuary to illegals and if you don't like that, you are free to attend another church because there are plenty of churches that stay out of politics and do good for the community.

So you see, it's complicated and people are pretty well mixed in. I'm no expert. My best friend lives in Easthampton and is very liberal. She is also extremely involved with her church and the church is made up of all kinds of people. Southampton has become upscale and expensive. Westfield is looking better. I don't know about Ludlow or Chicopee. Longmeadow hasn't changed much--it's snobby but you will find good people in poorer towns and in the rich towns and everywhere in between. I tried to generalize for you but it's hard to generalize. People don't usually talk about politics and religion except with their close friends--mostly, we don't judge people that way and those have always been taboo subjects. If we do tend to separate into groups, it's usually based upon interests, like the arts or boating or hiking.

[tovarisch]

I understand the wish to generalize --- we all do it, and the OP wanted us to -- but it's pretty easy to go awry with generalizations about towns; there are so many exceptions.

[ogre]

I lived in Amherst in the '90's, when I attended UMass as an older young adult, returning non-traditional student. My observation was that the various socioeconomic groups and groups with clashing political views pretty much lived in different worlds, and didn't really associate much with each other, except incidentally.

They lived in close proximity to each other due to residing in the same local area, and would physically cross paths when they were out and about, but in friendships and more personal interactions, birds of a proverbial feather tended to proverbially flock together.

I did occasionally observe some evidence of resentment by those of a more blue-collar or conservative element, toward the opposite. I wonder whether I would have heard more of this, and learned that there was a prevailing resentment, if I had been a native townie who was really part of that crowd.

In a bar I used to patronize, there were a few times when I observed a bartender talking to friends of his who had stopped in as customers, describing in kind of disparaging tones this or that example of someone left-wing or p.c. who had tried to tell him the exactly correct term for this or that demographic group, what views he must have about various groups, and the like. "They were trying to 'educate' me," the bartender explained in a mocking tone.

Another time in the same establishment, I happened to get into a conversation with another customer who told me he coached youth sports in Amherst. Seems he was old-school, and tried to teach kids the lesson that they could benefit from learning to work hard and try to keep improving their performance, and earning their places on the team. The man seemed genuinely discouraged when he told me how he had received resistance and criticism from a lot of parents, and adults in the community in general, who favored more of the everyone-gets-a-trophy approach.

It wasn't always townies. A fellow student I was friends with, who was in the National Guard or Army Reserve (I forget which), mentioned a few times in a sort of bitter tone about times he was on campus during periods of military duty. "You oughtta see the harassment and abuse you get just walking across the UMass campus in a green uniform."

A bit on the lighter side, a friend of mine who was a UMass employee in a blue-collar job used to joke frequently about the inefficiency of the university's bureaucracy. That might loosely relate to party politics, but he never mentioned politics per se.

He'd just grin and joke around along the lines of, "The administration is talking about having a meeting. But first they're going to have another meeting to decide what time to have the meeting. And they'll have another meeting to decide what to discuss at the meeting. And another meeting to decide when to have the meeting where they decide what time to hold the original meeting. And they'll also have a meeting to decide what time to have the meeting where the decide what topics to discuss at the original meeting . . . "

As I said, I wonder if I would have witnessed frequent examples of serious resentment if I had been a born-and-raised member of that crowd. On casual observation, though, it did appear that the various groups with their mixes of demographics and social/political views mostly hung with their own crowds, and just kind of briefly rubbed elbows with those in other crowds only when they happened to be in each other's presence while out and about.

[sombrueil]

I am a recent (liberal intellectual demographic) relo to the Pioneer Valley -- really I live in an adjacent hill town but that's my shopping district. What I have noted is that for me anyway, there is a lot of overlap of long-established families with agricultural roots, and newer people with similar interests. Lots of both new and old residents doing things like haying, growing market vegetables, apple farming, etc. Just trying to make a bit of a living. Getting hay in before the rain is the same no matter who you voted for. There is a lot of community spirit -- the town fairs & parades, etc.

Maybe I'm not answering the question asked though.

[tovarisch]

Sombrueil, you are finding positives rather than negatives; similarities rather than differences. I applaud you. We are all human, after all.

[oihamad]

No worries I am glad to hear there are positive interactions between different demographic groups in Pioneer Valley

[ogre]

Originally Posted by sombrueil

I am a recent (liberal intellectual demographic) relo to the Pioneer Valley -- really I live in an adjacent hill town but that's my shopping district. What I have noted is that for me anyway, there is a lot of overlap of long-established families with agricultural roots, and newer people with similar interests. Lots of both new and old residents doing things like haying, growing market vegetables, apple farming, etc. Just trying to make a bit of a living. Getting hay in before the rain is the same no matter who you voted for. There is a lot of community spirit -- the town fairs & parades, etc.

Maybe I'm not answering the question asked though.

Sounds like something I read from time to time on CD's Maine forum. They'll say there that traditional Maine natives figure that your political views are your own business, that they value certain standards of conduct and what you contribute to the community, regardless of politics. Maybe it's a rural New England thing. Or maybe a rural thing in general. When there's hard work to be done, the work ethic is what's important.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by ogre

Sounds like something I read from time to time on CD's Maine forum. They'll say there that traditional Maine natives figure that your political views are your own business, that they value certain standards of conduct and what you contribute to the community, regardless of politics. Maybe it's a rural New England thing. Or maybe a rural thing in general. When there's hard work to be done, the work ethic is what's important.

I get the impression that it's that way in rural areas. So maybe in the hilltowns outside of Northampton it would be that way. But Northampton is a city and you do see the clash of cultures somewhat. Amherst is just a town crammed with students but you see the clash there too. Neither place is rural.

[tovarisch]

You often focus just on the downtowns of Northampton and Amherst, but outside those, it can quickly get a bit rural (even within city limits) and those more accepting values are evident. True even here in "downtown" Florence.

[ogre]

Originally Posted by in_newengland

I get the impression that it's that way in rural areas. So maybe in the hilltowns outside of Northampton it would be that way. But Northampton is a city and you do see the clash of cultures somewhat. Amherst is just a town crammed with students but you see the clash there too. Neither place is rural.

Good observation. I was thinking of Amherst and Northampton in particular with my earlier post about students, academics, etc., and local regular folks, townies, etc. all living there in the same towns, but existing in different worlds, though I did pick up some rumblings of discontent among the locals about the attitudes of the college crowd.

Originally Posted by tovarisch

You often focus just on the downtowns of Northampton and Amherst, but outside those, it can quickly get a bit rural (even within city limits) and those more accepting values are evident. True even here in "downtown" Florence.

Something that figures in here is the New England town system, where in rural areas the town boundaries extend beyond the densely populated areas that are actual "towns" in the commonly understood sense. I'm less familiar with the outskirts of Northampton, but I do know there are areas within the official town boundaries of Amherst that are totally out in the country, complete with farms and all.

Interesting, though, to read that the live-and-let-live view does show up in a more in-town (sort of) area like Florence.