Maine National Park (Augusta, Bar Harbor, Liberty: motels, construction, camps)

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by Maineah

It's kind of like the health care debate. What part of WE DON'T WANT THIS NATIONAL PARK IN MAINE is escaping you?
Or do you know what Maine needs better than the people who live here?

Who is WE? And who are you addressing here? Lentz was just curious, and the anti-park point of view has been well voiced. However, I am not certian that 4-5 posters speaks for all the stakeholders on this issue. If you are referring to me, I never suggested it, though I think it is worthy of discussion. I am enjoying, for instance, the discussion of the merits of early and late successional forests in the NE.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by lentzr

Alright guys, I am sorry that I suggested it. Sorry if my question got people annoyed. It is just that many more tourist dollars can be put in if the area is a "national" park or forest. The timber industry in Maine has not lifted northern Maine out of its economic situation. It was just a suggestion after hearing the the Conagree Swamp in SC and the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Monuments became National Parks with the primary purpose of attracting tourist dollars. It just seems like a more reliable industry than today's timber industry.

Hey, no apologies needed Lentzr! These boards are for discussions, and land use discussions always seem to get feisty. You fired folks up a bit. Nothing wrong with that, providing that you weren't trying to bait people, which I did not see.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Consider us baited. The stakeholders in this fight are those who own land in Maine. Any other so called stakeholders are interlopers and usurpers. This is a wide open forum. We know there are many who are drooling over the prospects of driving us out of Maine.

"The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them. The fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this army-Our cruel and unrelenting Enemy leaves us no choice but a brave resistance, or the most abject submission; that is all we can expect-We have therefore to resolve to conquer or die." -- George Washington to his troops before the Battle of Long Island.

They may try to drive us off by eminent domain.
We will not leave.
There will be no more free Wacos and no more free Katrinas.
We will not disarm.
You cannot convince us.
You cannot intimidate us.
You can try to kill us, if you think you can.
But remember, we’ll shoot back .
We are not going away.
We are not backing up another inch.
And there are a lot of us.
Your move.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

Consider us baited. The stakeholders in this fight are those who own land in Maine. Any other so called stakeholders are interlopers and usurpers. This is a wide open forum. We know there are many who are drooling over the prospects of driving us out of Maine.

"The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them. The fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this army-Our cruel and unrelenting Enemy leaves us no choice but a brave resistance, or the most abject submission; that is all we can expect-We have therefore to resolve to conquer or die." -- George Washington to his troops before the Battle of Long Island.

They may try to drive us off by eminent domain.
We will not leave.
There will be no more free Wacos and no more free Katrinas.
We will not disarm.
You cannot convince us.
You cannot intimidate us.
You can try to kill us, if you think you can.
But remember, we’ll shoot back .
We are not going away.
We are not backing up another inch.
And there are a lot of us.
Your move.

Huh?

[roadrat]

Originally Posted by lentzr

Alright guys, I am sorry that I suggested it. Sorry if my question got people annoyed. It is just that many more tourist dollars can be put in if the area is a "national" park or forest. The timber industry in Maine has not lifted northern Maine out of its economic situation. It was just a suggestion after hearing the the Conagree Swamp in SC and the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Monuments became National Parks with the primary purpose of attracting tourist dollars. It just seems like a more reliable industry than today's timber industry.

"It is just that many more tourist dollars", So tell me is it your dream to put on a paper hat and ask some snot nosed tourist kid if he wants fries with his Baxter burger?

Trust me if my job was lost because of RESTORE and I had to take a tourist industry job, you would not want to eat that burger

Not everyone is willing to grovel for the allmighty tourist $.

bill

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

Consider us baited. The stakeholders in this fight are those who own land in Maine. Any other so called stakeholders are interlopers and usurpers. This is a wide open forum. We know there are many who are drooling over the prospects of driving us out of Maine.

"The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them. The fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this army-Our cruel and unrelenting Enemy leaves us no choice but a brave resistance, or the most abject submission; that is all we can expect-We have therefore to resolve to conquer or die." -- George Washington to his troops before the Battle of Long Island.

They may try to drive us off by eminent domain.
We will not leave.
There will be no more free Wacos and no more free Katrinas.
We will not disarm.
You cannot convince us.
You cannot intimidate us.
You can try to kill us, if you think you can.
But remember, we’ll shoot back .
We are not going away.
We are not backing up another inch.
And there are a lot of us.
Your move.

I disagree.

There will be more Wacos.

More Ruby Ridges too.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by roadrat

"It is just that many more tourist dollars", So tell me is it your dream to put on a paper hat and ask some snot nosed tourist kid if he wants fries with his Baxter burger?

Trust me if my job was lost because of RESTORE and I had to take a tourist industry job, you would not want to eat that burger

Not everyone is willing to grovel for the allmighty tourist $.

bill

Frankly, this strikes me as a false dichotomy. Sure, perhaps the RESTORE multimillion acre park idea would disenfranchise people. However, a modest-sized park would likely not cover but a small proportion of the North Woods, and it would bring a lot of jobs with good salary and benefits, sent to you by 200 million or so taxpayers of the US of A. Rangers, foresters, biologists, archaeologist, interpreters, maintenance staff, road and trail engineers, construction crews, clerics, contract officers, mechanics, fire fighters, law enforcement staff, etc. And these would just be the park staff. All the spinoff industries would add to that. It is not a one to one trade between logger and burger flipper.

Generally, I believe that rural folks need to think about is how to diversify their economy for long-term viability. It saddens me to see rural folks snarling like underpaid watchdogs for industries that really do not care about them. If a huge, ill-conceived behemoth like the RESTORE proposal will lock up land and turn everyone into a fast food person or realtor, perhaps you are right, but I think a thoughtful proposal would not be the zero sum game you suggest above.

And before someone calls me a usurper, I very much doubt Mrs. Fiddlehead is going to support moving to N. Maine for real estate speculation or recreational interloping.

Just enjoying the discussion.

[lentzr]

Thanks Fiddlehead, that was a good point you just made.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

"I disagree.

There will be more Wacos.

More Ruby Ridges too."

Yes, but they won't come with a free pass any more.

Spring is here. We're enjoying the discussion too. It's a lovely time of year. We have seen the dichotomy. It has been going on for a century, but the big change came on September 23, 1971 when LURC and the oppressive rules went into effect. Just last week LURC changed the rules. Nobody got to vote on it. It was done by decree. The new rules are what we have to live under for the next 10 years or more until LURC has another bunch of whims.

[Submariner]

I think that in any area with a low-population-density you are going to have a hard time building a thriving economy.

Finding a vein of gold would help, for a short period of time a boom town appears; but once the gold disappears, so do the people. I grew up very near to a gold boom area, I do understand how that works. Ghost towns are left behind.

The 'Plum Creek' resort area was previously a resort, but now sits as a ghost town. There is very little to draw crowds there so it collapsed already once.

So what exists in a rural low-population area that is going to draw a thriving economy?

I grew up near to Yosemite National Park [761,266 acres], they get over 3.5 million visitors each year.

So how does that help the economy of the area? They have one restaurant, one small hotel, one gas station,

Do the surrounding communities benefit? Mariposa, Coulterville, Sonora, Placerville? No they are tiny and have nothing.

A national park is not an amusement park. They do not have rides and candy, there are not thousands of employees. They have 40 seasonal forest rangers who live in yurts.

A new national park in Maine will not benefit Maine [with the exception of gas stations and motels along the freeway].

National parks do not generate tourist dollars. In a national park the tourists take photos, and most of them bring their own film with them.

A national park is about: recreation, biological diversity conservation, and scenic beauty. Nothing else.

Making a new park in a populated area will be about cleansing, and killing any economy that is already there.