What typically costs more to build - 2 story or 1 story? (Hope: house, maintenance)

[dramamama6685]

Well, I was going to answer up.. but several on here have alreayd said the same thing that I would have (i.e. cheaper on the roof, heating, etc.).

[ClownShoes]

I'm in the same boat. I'd love a basement, but the bottom line is what I can afford. Someone told me I'd have to put in 4 feet of stone below the basement floor.

I'd like the house to only be about 3 or 4 feet off the ground, so if the basement has to be pretty deep I figure I'm looking at 20 grand just for the basement / foundation being built.


Comments, thoughts??


Thanks~!

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by ClownShoes

I'm in the same boat. I'd love a basement, but the bottom line is what I can afford. Someone told me I'd have to put in 4 feet of stone below the basement floor.

I'd like the house to only be about 3 or 4 feet off the ground, so if the basement has to be pretty deep I figure I'm looking at 20 grand just for the basement / foundation being built.


Comments, thoughts??


Thanks~!

4 foot of stone beneath the basement?

It does need to extend below the frost-line, which is 4 feet down, maybe that is what was meant.

When you say that you want the house 4 foot off the ground, do you mean to say that the roof eaves are 4 feet above grade? So like the house is partly bermed?

Or are you saying that you want the house up off the ground with 4 foot of breaze-way underneath it?



My foundation was done professionally. It has a lot of rebar in it, to support a steel warehouse. It is 60 foot by 40 foot, and 5 foot deep. It could have gone 8 foot deep for the same price. It cost me $10k.

[ClownShoes]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

4 foot of stone beneath the basement?

It does need to extend below the frost-line, which is 4 feet down, maybe that is what was meant.

When you say that you want the house 4 foot off the ground, do you mean to say that the roof eaves are 4 feet above grade? So like the house is partly bermed?

Or are you saying that you want the house up off the ground with 4 foot of breaze-way underneath it?



My foundation was done professionally. It has a lot of rebar in it, to support a steel warehouse. It is 60 foot by 40 foot, and 5 foot deep. It could have gone 8 foot deep for the same price. It cost me $10k.

I'd like the house's foundation to be about 3 feet above ground ( exposed ), with the house on it. I'm not sure if breaze way is the right term, or a Maine term.

Something like this (http://www.brittlynn.com/Photo%20Archive/Modular%20Home%20%5BBangor%5D/Modular%20Home%20John%20Krasantie%20%5B11-01-01%5D%20246.JPG - broken link)is what I'm thinking. ( just an example )


10 grand, I can live with.


Please keep the thoughts and input coming....

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by ClownShoes

I'd like the house's foundation to be about 3 feet above ground ( exposed ), with the house on it....

You dont want dirt backfilled in or bermed up against the foundation?

Why?

[ClownShoes]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

You dont want dirt backfilled in or bermed up against the foundation?

Why?

Never thought about any other way. Is there a benefit of having dirt pushed against the house?

Down the road, I'd like the decks ( front and back ) off the ground.

[BrokenTap]

I disagree with what has been said regarding foundations, two story homes and single floor homes. I was in the same situation as you when I had to make a decision as to whether go up, or go our. In the end I decided to go out because it was cheaper and could potentially save me a lot of money down the road. I say this in regards to the reduced framing costs, lower insurance rates and lower maintenance costs, so there is a lot to consider.

I will state right up front, I think full basements are a bad investment. Part of that is because todays slabs actually function as more then a foundation. With radiant floor heat (and who would consider building a house in Maine without it), the slab is both your heating system and foundation. With a slab you are directly heating the contents you come into contact with everyday, and not heating the contents of your basements that then warm the air of the basement, that then warms the bottoms of your floors. The slab is a lot more effecient at delivering heat to the rooms you use the most.

Another thing to consider is shifting of a home. Slabs do not shift because there is no frost underneath the slab. This reduces overall maintenance because you are not going to repair cracks in your drywall, have sticking doors or other damage from frost getting under a full basement and lifting the home. The power of frost expanding dirt by 11% is amazing. Granted a good drainage system in a full foundation goes along ways, but those systems better be perfect and they often fill with silt and fail down the road.

One other consideration to make with going out versus going up is handicap accessibility. About the time I was making a decision, my Father-in-Law had a knee injury, a woman at work blew out her knee and my Grandmother could no longer use her upstairs. All had 2nd floors they could not get too. Well the girl at work installed an elevator in her home but it cost her 25,000 bucks. That was one reason I went with a ranch stly home. I can roll from my driveway to my bedroom in a wheel chair. Why go with a 2nd floor or basement that you may not be able to have access to in your latter years...or heaven forbid...an accident? Considering how much us Mainers are in our cars in snowy weather, we are indeed only one car accident away from being crippled. Older parents may be another concern.

Overall I like my 2100 square foot home on a slab and all one floor. The property taxes here are low enough so that the footprint comparison cost is a moot point, and the basements I see are always dark and dank. For the few that have daylight basements, they are nice but the added insurance costs would be a hidden cost that detract from a true cost comparison.

Overall, going out is probably cheaper. You can save a lot of money on such things as reduced framing costs, insurance costs and long term maintenance. Another thing to consider is the cost of going up, especially if you are contracting out your homes construction. The higher workers get off the ground, the slower the pace and the more logistics comes into play...from renting lifts and whatnot. You are paying for that extra labor, where as a single floor home can be put up with only a few short ladders and workers not hanging from their toenails.

In my case, it was cheaper to go out then go up, and if I ever get wheel chair bound, my home is ready for me.

[BrokenTap]

Originally Posted by ClownShoes

Someone told me I'd have to put in 4 feet of stone below the basement floor.

I don't think you understood what you were told. I think the person was trying to tell you to do kind of what I did.

I added 200 yards of big rock underneath my homes slab, not because of frost or drainage but to let that rock act as a heat sink. Since I use radiant floor heat, at the beginning of the year, that rock helps keep my slab warm just from ground temps. But when I start to heat that slab, inevitably that rock will be warmed as well. In effect I do not have a 6" thick slab helping to heat my floors, I have a 4 foot thick slab helping to heat my floors. The heat sink potential of that rock is incredible and yes I recommend you do that!

[kellysmith]

Originally Posted by BrokenTap

I don't think you understood what you were told. I think the person was trying to tell you to do kind of what I did.

I added 200 yards of big rock underneath my homes slab, not because of frost or drainage but to let that rock act as a heat sink. Since I use radiant floor heat, at the beginning of the year, that rock helps keep my slab warm just from ground temps. But when I start to heat that slab, inevitably that rock will be warmed as well. In effect I do not have a 6" thick slab helping to heat my floors, I have a 4 foot thick slab helping to heat my floors. The heat sink potential of that rock is incredible and yes I recommend you do that!

BrokenTap,
Your system seems to go against most standards I have seen. The ground temps in most locales run around 55 degrees, so there's no way ground temps are doing much to heat the slab unless you keep your house cooler than 55. Having a large thermal mass such as the rock below the slab would do some good if you were somehow doing passive heat such as solar heat gain, southern exposure, efficient windows, etc. You don't say what you use to heat the radiant floor, but any system I have seen that burns a fuel to heat the fluid in the radiant system is designed to prevent the heat from moving downward. Most designs I've seen call for at least 4 inches of foam below the slab to help prevent heat from traveling down into the earth. I fail to see the rational of heating the rock below the slab and hoping that heat travels back up into the living space. To me you would spend quite a bit of money trying to raise the 55 degree temperature of the earth. Why not put the foam below the slab and get a higher percentage of the heat into the living space. Maybe the boiler will run more often, but for a shorter period of time. I don't see how burning a fuel to heat a thermal mass underground saves money. Thermodynamics seems to dictate that heating an underground mass with a fuel with the hope of recovering that heat later would operate at a rate of diminishing return.

[BrokenTap]

I can understand where you get that idea from, but I am not silly enough to put rock in to act as a heat sink and not isolate it from the earth using insulation. In essence my concrete slab (that is entirely made up of rock itself) is one big foundation 4'-6" thick (6" of concrete and 4 feet of rock.)

I think one bit of confusion lies in assuming rock acts the same thermally as earth and that is just not the case. Rock has the unique thermal dynamics of taking on heat quickly, but releasing it rather slowly. Since the rock and concrete I used is captured on the bottom and side by insulation...and not on top in the rooms I want to heat...and the heat always rises...the rooms are warmed.

I do have the problem of heating that massive mass in the fall as the heating season begins, but since I have such a large "heating element" as it is, I do not need to run incredibly high heat to adequately warm my home. The water running through my floor is in the 70-80 degree range so I really only need to heat my floor from 55º to 75º. This is based on a VERY sophisticated boiler system that checks the outside temp, the temp of the water returning from the floor loops, and the temp of the slab itself once per minute. The PLC calculates how much heat the slab is losing in accordance to what the temp is doing outside. The colder it is outside, the faster the slab is losing heat, so the higher the slab has to be to maintain the same temp in the rooms. As the temp outside rises, the heat circulating through my floor lowers.

This is where the massive heat sink really comes into play. Because it takes so long for the slab to absorb or release heat, you can get a delay especially if in January the temp outside goes from being warm on one day, then cold, then back up to warm. In most systems, the system stays low on the warm day, cannot bring the slab up fast enough on the cold day, and then the slab is too warm on the third day of being warm again. So your home is perfect on day one, then cold on day two and ends up being hot on day three. That is no good. With the system I got, the heat sink and temp sensors allows the heat sink to flatten out those heat spikes so you get a more consistent heat. Better yet, this system saves A LOT of fuel!

I think my house is actually pretty darn efficient. I average 1400-1500 dollars to heat my home for the heating season for this 2100 square foot home using propane only. Down the road I would like to add a system that would at the very least warm my concrete slab/rock in the fall to initially raise that mass from 55º to 75º. Right now it would be cost prohibitive to get a solar system to do that. Perhaps a wood boiler would work, but ultimately I would like to go green and use compost heat. That though is a topic for another thread entirely (LOL)