biometric scanning (credit, home, transfer)

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by mommax3plus2

... "the system will then develop a grid, intersecting points of the fingers and converting those points to mathematical logarithms. the actual image of the finger is then discarded and only the grid remains in the system. this is how the students and staff are recognized by the system and their accounts tallied electrocially." ...

That is how 'biometrics' works.

The math formula made from the ratios of your features. The UK developed the system for computers to be able to do face recognition.

Instead of measuring the distances between: eyes, ears, chin, nose, etc; it focuses on using their ratios.

True measurements would require to-scale photos, and it would require each face to be exactly at the same angle. Whereas by using a formula of ratios your photo could be re-sized.

It also works when the suspect is not looking straight at the camera. A photo could be a side-shot, or you could cover one side of your face with a hat; and still the system will get a match.

With biometric fingerprints if a few ridges get smudged, it does not stop the process.

Trying to match real fingerprint photos requires the photos to be aligned perfectly. If your thumb was placed on the pad at a slight angle, the print would never match. Old-fashion comparing fingerprints take a lot of man-hours.

By converting prints to a formula of ratios,:
1. it can be done by computer,

2. the prints can be done at an angle,

3. millions of prints take less storage space sine they are no longer BMPs, but rather a sequence of numbers.

4. matching is much faster. [if you try to find a match and your suspect's sequence starts with 'XX' then you only need to search through the 'XX' section of the database. Whereas previously to find a match every single scan had to be compared while slewing the photos to left and right, you could not skip any of them]



Which are all solid reasons for why all fingerprints in Federal storage began getting re-scanned and re-stored as biometrics beginning around y2k.

By this late year, I should think that they have all been converted.

Though the mechanics for doing the biometric scans have not filtered down to local PDs yet [due mostly to local budgetary short-falls]. PDs send old fashioned ink prints in to the FBI, who converts them to biometric for usage.



I am a geek who spent 6 years doing LEO work before I retired, so I have weird junk in my head, at times.

[mommax3plus2]

wierd- but useful!

if its brought down to a grid- does that make it more likely that someone would have the same fingerprint grid?

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by mommax3plus2

wierd- but useful!

if its brought down to a grid- does that make it more likely that someone would have the same fingerprint grid?

For the greater 'security' of the community and since public-funded schools do receive Federal funding; I would wager that from now on, once a year, all biometrics from graduated classes will be up-loaded into a Federal database.

I am saying that they would likely do it after graduation each year, since by then we are no longer talking about minors.

I would think that so long as each student remains a minor, their identifying data will be slightly restricted.



Did you see the stuff stuffed into this 'stimulus' bill about healthcare? All medical records being converted to a Federal database, to track doctor performance and as a clearinghouse to pre-approve treatment protocols. On one hand a nation wide database means that any Er you walk into would have your entire medical history at hand. As would every insurance company.

This is one small step toward the Big-Brother or Nanny government, that is commonly discussed.



All states are going through this, not just Maine.

[broadbill]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

I would wager that from now on, once a year, all biometrics from graduated classes will be up-loaded into a Federal database.

Why do you say this?

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by broadbill

Why do you say this?

Doing it with identifying data from minors would be fought in the courts.

[maja]

Ah No! Does this mean we have to say good bye to the good old lunch room ladies? And then what? The whole hairnet industry folds? Talk about putting people out of work!

[broadbill]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

Doing it with identifying data from minors would be fought in the courts.

Obviously...but what I was asking is why you think the government would be collecting these fingerprints and putting them into a Fed. database in the first place. Sorry for the confusion.

[mainebrokerman]

maybe im off base here, but because its the school lunch program, it echos of one very loud teacher i had a kid, and every morning, he would collect lunch monies from the kids, and the kids that didnt have to pay (family below poverty line) had to raise thier hands,,,, i was too young to understand the whole picture, i actually thought they were lucky, not having to pay, but remember the reluctancy of the kids to raise thier hands,,,
so if this has anything to do with being discreet on the status or ability to pay, it may not be such a bad thing

[kellysmith]

Biometrics can be used on a USB thumbdrive as a means of authentication. It's like Forest says. An algorithm is created from points of the print, and there would be a 99.99% certainty (or something close to that) that only your finger print would unlock it. What the system described would store of the actual biometrics would not be anything that could do anybody any good to snoop into our private lives. Google IAFIS and you can get some information on how biometrics are involved regarding fingerprints. It's a database stored by the FBI. The only fingerprints stored in the IAFIS database are those of bad guys. If you've ever applied for a job that required a security clearance, that employer had to submit your 10 fingerprints to be run against the IAFIS database. Assuming you are not a bad guy, there's no match, your prints are discarded, and all is well. Immigration and Naturalization used to use a 2 print system to search for recidivism (someone who had a prior illegal entry and had been apprehended again). That couldn't be run against IAFIS so one of the changes after 9-11 is CBP went to a ten print system for processing illegals. I've seen the number, but don't remember what it is, but there have been dozens and dozens of crimes solved including multiple murders, when processing is checked against IAFIS. Those from Texas probably remember the Railroad Killer. He was an illegal who would come into the country by train and was responsible for quite a few murders in the South. INS caught him several times, but the system in place wouldn't run his prints against the FBI database because it was a 2 print system, so everytime he was caught, he was given a ride to the border and released. Catch and release was the policy for illegals at the time and there was no way to know his prints matched the killer responsible for multiple murders. In my eyes, having the ability to catch people like this is a good thing.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by broadbill

Obviously...but what I was asking is why you think the government would be collecting these fingerprints and putting them into a Fed. database in the first place. Sorry for the confusion.

I know the nature of how government agencies tend to work.

I once held a high security clearance and handled sensitive intelligence. The nature of the beast does not change.

I retired and I built a Faraday cage to live inside of.



There will be front marketing which convinces the public with really good sounding 'benefit's. Within that there will be financial 'benefit's which convince the administrators to play along. And then when you look closer there will be yet another longer term 'benefit' which only comes to light a decade later [but Federal agencies were making use of all along].