Forest management plan (licensed)

[kellysmith]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

Aviation gasoline has lower octane than car gasoline so they charge more for avgas.

Avgas actually has higher octane. The most common fuel used in small airplanes is 100LL. That is 100 Octane. The "LL" stands for low lead. 100LL is a leaded fuel because the plane engine needs lead to prevent it from burning up. Back in the day, guys would go to the airport and buy a few cans of Avgas and that would be what they would burn in their pull trucks at Truck Pulls.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

R B G P

Rich Boys Get Picked. I have been a commercial pilot since 1973. The older you get the faster years go by. R B G P also stands for Red, Blue, Green and Purple. Red is 87 octane. I forget the exact numbers for blue and green. You can look them up on line. Purple is 115/145 octane and is used at air races like Reno, Nevada where they race WWII Mustangs and other speed demons. All of these are fuels are "avgas". The higher the octane, the more resistant the fuel is to detonation. Detonation can destroy engines.

Time to go and bush hog a runway for my powered parachute and ultra-light twin. My twin is a Lazair with 38 foot wingspread.

[Submariner]

I just got an email from Maine Department of Agriculture Conservation & Forestry

Managing your Woodlot for Wildlife Talk in Smyrna Mills

Date: Thursday, June 15, 2023

Time: 5:00 PM - 7:00 PM

Location: Spring Break Maple and Honey 3315 U.S. Rte 2, Smyrna Mills

Presenters: Joe Roy, Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife (MDIFW) Private Lands Wildlife Biologist

Lauren Ouellette, Maine Forest Service District Forester

Topic: Learn about forest management and techniques that promote the role of dead wood and tree forest native plant species snags, wildlife. Understand openings, in supporting habitat for woodland inhabitants.

For more information and to let us know you’re coming contact Lauren Ouellette at Lauren.Ouellette@maine.gov or (207) 441-3817 (Note previous announcements for this event had an incorrect phone number for Lauren.)

[IanGG]

Originally Posted by Dairinn

I found out that there are huge fees associated with going off the plan if u purchase the property. My plan would be animal habitat and peace. But I’m under the impression that the tax break is made up in state revenue by giving your trees to the paper mills who have to then pay the state. If I’m right - then no forester would write a plan that didn’t involve a tree harvest.

Am I close ?

That said, it sounds like Northern Maine Land Man and Submariner have already hooked you up with some good answers here.

This thread highlights for me just how freaking complicated real estate transactions like this are. It makes the dream of buying land in Maine just that little bit less plausible.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by IanGG

... This thread highlights for me just how freaking complicated real estate transactions like this are. It makes the dream of buying land in Maine just that little bit less plausible.

I have bought several apartment complexes, buying two parcels of 'bare' land in Treegrowth was far easier.

I found a 'land transaction lawyer' who charges a flat fee of $200 per closing. He did the title search and insurance, and he typed up new deeds and filed them for us.

A large portion of my land is within 'Shoreland Protection', so I had to read up on that program. But the land that effects produces fiddleheads and it has mature maples that I tap. So do not see it as a hassle.

There are many things you can do with land in Treegrowth status.

There is always some local who earns a living by delivering firewood, so those guys will approach asking if they can thin the trees, and remove all dead wood.

I planted a fruit orchard and that did not affect its Treegrowth status.

I fenced in 5 acres and ran a herd of pigs [the pigs cleaned up the understory brush and made that area look much nicer].

You can just leave it alone and hire a forester every ten years for advice.

We dived down the rabbit hole researching 'green cemeteries' in Maine for a few years. [no coffins, no formaldehyde, just wrap the body with a sheet and bury it in a hole, no tombstones, though you could plant an apple tree on the spot, so if anyone ever comes to visit the grave they could pick some apples while on-site]

One of our parcels was bought by my sister-in-law, when she passed away I inherited it. She is buried in that parcel. Her name was 'Holly', so I planted a holly bush on top of her.

Most winters at least one bear overwinters on my land. I really enjoy seeing them. The first couple of years when I saw a bear wandering around in the early Spring I was concerned about my pigs. but after watching the interaction between bear and pigs, I came to understand they are fine.

[svband76]

Originally Posted by Submariner

I have bought several apartment complexes, buying two parcels of 'bare' land in Treegrowth was far easier.

I found a 'land transaction lawyer' who charges a flat fee of $200 per closing. He did the title search and insurance, and he typed up new deeds and filed them for us.

A large portion of my land is within 'Shoreland Protection', so I had to read up on that program. But the land that effects produces fiddleheads and it has mature maples that I tap. So do not see it as a hassle.

There are many things you can do with land in Treegrowth status.

There is always some local who earns a living by delivering firewood, so those guys will approach asking if they can thin the trees, and remove all dead wood.

I planted a fruit orchard and that did not affect its Treegrowth status.

I fenced in 5 acres and ran a herd of pigs [the pigs cleaned up the understory brush and made that area look much nicer].

You can just leave it alone and hire a forester every ten years for advice.

We dived down the rabbit hole researching 'green cemeteries' in Maine for a few years. [no coffins, no formaldehyde, just wrap the body with a sheet and bury it in a hole, no tombstones, though you could plant an apple tree on the spot, so if anyone ever comes to visit the grave they could pick some apples while on-site]

One of our parcels was bought by my sister-in-law, when she passed away I inherited it. She is buried in that parcel. Her name was 'Holly', so I planted a holly bush on top of her.

Most winters at least one bear overwinters on my land. I really enjoy seeing them. The first couple of years when I saw a bear wandering around in the early Spring I was concerned about my pigs. but after watching the interaction between bear and pigs, I came to understand they are fine.

Very educational thank you. Interesting to say the least. I've come across many lots for sale that contain little cemeteries.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by svband76

Very educational thank you. Interesting to say the least. I've come across many lots for sale that contain little cemeteries.

When my SIL was alive she got interested in converting her 105-acre parcel into a 'green cemetary', so I attended a few of those workshops, and had some discussions with Funeral Directors. To allow us to form a business plan. We were happy to find that cemeteries and 'Treegrowth' can be compatible with each other.

But we were not able to form a plan that would have shown enough profit to pay for itself.

Anyone who wants a 'green' burial may ask whoever owns the cemetery, and if such is allowed by their bylaws, then it can happen. Some cemeteries offer such, and some do not.

Most of the tiny cemeteries I have seen are 'family' cemeteries. Someone in your family dies so you bury them on your land, and on your next trip to the county seat, you file an addendum to your deed and explain that a piece of your land is now a private cemetery.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Then there are pilots who want their ashes air dropped. an ordinary vacuum cleaner hose will vacuum the ashes out of the milk carton the crematorium provides. Some people want their ashes to be dropped over a favorite mountain; some at sea. You don't need a license to do this.

[Zymer]

Originally Posted by IanGG

This thread highlights for me just how freaking complicated real estate transactions like this are. It makes the dream of buying land in Maine just that little bit less plausible.

No, this thread highlights misinformation and misunderstanding. Buying in Maine is no more difficult than anywhere else, and can sometimes be simpler (if you know what you are doing) as Submariner has pointed out.


There is only one caveat to buying land which is in a tax reduction program such as 'Tree Growth' or 'Farmland and Open Space'- you must continue to maintain the property in the program or you will have to pay a penalty.


These programs are intended to be long-term strategies to prevent land from being over-developed. These programs offer the land-owner a reduction in taxes for being in one of the programs. In order to prevent the programs from being misused, by people who simply want to avoid taxes in the short-term and don't really care about the land, there is a penalty to prevent it.


To prevent abuse, the 'penalty' is actually quite simple- payment of the back-taxes that would have been due had the property not been in one of the programs.


Land in one of these programs can be less expensive to purchase because it is less desirable to developers. This is good for ordinary people who just want to live there, but less than good for a developer with the idea of purchasing cheap land and building a bunch of ticky-tacky houses to sell at a premium. Depending on how long the land has been in a tax-reduction program, the back-taxes due could be substantial, which acts as a deterrent to such development.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Good thread. For the average person it may seem like a *** saw puzzle with many different pieces, but they will all fit after thorough inspection. Don't commit yourself to a forestry plan based on some information your cousin may have. You can go to a town office and ask to see forestry plans. Note the forester's name from each one. There is a good chance the name that appears the most will work efficiently to develop a plan for you. If you buy 100 acres, you can put part of it into a forestry plan and if you intend to subdivide part of it for your relatives or to sell, you can do that. If you have a hall mile of road frontage, put that into tree growth and keep your back land available for development. That way you have a lower cost when you remove a 5 acre lot from tree growth.