Small houses Part 2 (Belfast, Penobscot: fit in, loft, buying)

[PAhippo]

but doesn't it get colder than that in Maine?

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by PAhippo

but doesn't it get colder than that in Maine?

Up north and west, in the mountains, definitely, but midcoast and southern coast, no. Plus, as Submariner said, you've got the woodstove for "backup" - if the power goes out or it gets too cold for the heat pump to deal with fully, you light a fire in that. If the house is well insulated and has an open layout, the woodstove will easily heat it by itself. Either way, most of the time, the heat pump is good enough, and they're quite economical to operate as well as convenient... plus you don't really *need* it, but they will keep you comfortable in summer as well if it gets uncomfortably warm for a spell.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by PAhippo

but doesn't it get colder than that in Maine?

Where I live we normally expect one week when we will see temps in the -15F to -20F range.

The heatpumps I have are rated to completely stop producing warmth at -13F.

So by the time you are at -10F, your heatpump will be very close to having exceeded its ability to heat a house.

As OutdoorLover hinted, you should also keep in mind that the power grid will go down every month. Living in Maine we come to expect those power outages two / three times every month.

Everytime I see a thread about pellet stoves, I try to remind folks they need to get one of the non-electric pellet stoves for the same reason.

I have learned a lot about generators while living in Maine. Most homes in my township run with two generators, one large unit and one small unit. It is interesting to hear the scenario of how they plan to shift back and forth between two generators.

Also if you plan to use a generator, you need to budget for the fuel they consume. One of our neighbors plans to consume $150 a month in generator fuel each winter.


Anyone considering living in Maine needs to include at least one generator in his/her plans, my concern is that in such a conversation you must not use the phrase 'backup' anywhere in the conversation.

[PAhippo]

ok-getting off topic here but how do you keep pipes from freezing with no heat?




I'm thinking wood stove in the house itself ( living room or close) while the water pipes are in the basement.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by PAhippo

ok-getting off topic here but how do you keep pipes from freezing with no heat?

I'm thinking wood stove in the house itself ( living room or close) while the water pipes are in the basement.

Are you thinking of heating this basement?

Crawl space pipes freeze all the time.

[nm9stheham]

Just don't anyone here take the -10F as a hard number for heat pumps..... the cold climate mini-splits can do that but their efficiency does drop. To get regular heat pumps down that low, they have to be using internal resistance heat strips.



And each will have a certain output and will keep up the heat in a house xxxx big, with yyyy insulation, and with zzzz wind blowing. Each house is gonna vary for xxxx, yyyy, and zzzz!

[PAhippo]

Originally Posted by Submariner

Are you thinking of heating this basement?

Crawl space pipes freeze all the time.

I'm used to furnaces which are usually in the basement. Had one place it was in the kitchen area and had heat tapes around the water pipes. They of course run on electricity.


The minisplit heat pump is totally new animal to me. It's just something I'm trying to understand.

[nm9stheham]

Just small heat pumps with no ductwork, set up so as to heat the house in small chunks rather than 1 centralized heat system with ducts.. Technology has advanced and
helped efficiency, and they are configured to be easier to install.

Baciscally, you're using electricity to extract heat from the outside air and move it inside.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by PAhippo

I'm used to furnaces which are usually in the basement. Had one place it was in the kitchen area and had heat tapes around the water pipes. They of course run on electricity.


The minisplit heat pump is totally new animal to me. It's just something I'm trying to understand.

I have a fair handle on heat pumps, but regarding basement pipes freezing I have actually wondered the same thing. A basement is a little warmer than a crawlspace because it's dug well below the surface soil level. And you are right that a furnace and ducting, or a boiler plus heating pipes, plus hot water system piping in the basement will provide some heat to the basement, even if it feels cold down there, plus there is *some* heat that will come through the first floor from the heated space above.

In a new house, there's a fair chance the basement is insulated with foam. But if the only heating source for the house itself is on the first floor - heating stove or heat pump... will there still be enough warmth making it into the basement to keep the pipes from freezing in a long January cold spell in the neighborhood of 0 degrees?

I dunno, but I think it will take at minimum insulating the basement wall, floor and the water pipes. I had a pipe break in the basement when I lived in western NY during a protracted cold spell - fortunately, it broke just over a big open water cistern in a side bay of the basement. My girlfriend was home sick that day - also lucky, and called me up at the office and by the time I got home, that thing was filling up, made a big impression on me.

Local contractors should know. If they're building houses, they don't want to get called back because pipes broke, and they don't want their reputation to suffer either.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

I have a fair handle on heat pumps, but regarding basement pipes freezing I have actually wondered the same thing. A basement is a little warmer than a crawlspace because it's dug well below the surface soil level. And you are right that a furnace and ducting, or a boiler plus heating pipes, plus hot water system piping in the basement will provide some heat to the basement, even if it feels cold down there, plus there is *some* heat that will come through the first floor from the heated space above.

In my region we are told to expect frost down to four foot below grade. My basement exterior walls freeze.

... In a new house, there's a fair chance the basement is insulated with foam. But if the only heating source for the house itself is on the first floor - heating stove or heat pump... will there still be enough warmth making it into the basement to keep the pipes from freezing in a long January cold spell

I have friends who seem to experience issues every winter with their pipes freezing in their crawl spaces.

Whatever system a person decides to use for home heating, keep in mind that it may be a mistake to rely on the power grid to provide power to your home through the winter.

... Local contractors should know. If they're building houses, they don't want to get called back because pipes broke, and they don't want their reputation to suffer either.

A few years ago, in Orono there was a S.C. investor who hired local contractors to build a 200-unit student housing complex near the UM-Orono campus. They only used heatpumps as the heat source for those apartments. Within a year there were lawsuits as the apartments froze in winter. and by summer the sheetrock walls were covered in mold.

The local contractor should have known that was not going to work.

The Orono city building inspector who approved the plans, should have known it was not going to work.

From what I read in the BDN, the S.C. investors had insisted that heat pumps work fine in S.C. so they should work fine in Maine.

Heat pump technology has made huge leaps, but you still should not rely on it as your sole source of heat. Besides you need to consider what you plan to do when the power goes out for a week.

It is shocking to hear how much people normally spend on generator fuel every month.