Maine Demographics (Bangor, Lincoln, Millinocket: student loans, how much, home)

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Maine has hit a wall. In the Lincoln/Millinocket area there were 18 teaching openings in the public schools. They were only able to hire three. We are competing with states like Massachusetts and Connecticut where they pay as much as double what we are able to offer. Maine’s history, heritage, recreational opportunities and low cost of living are not impressive at all to the millennials living in the digital age.

It isn’t just education. It is medical care, transportation, logging, paper making, and manufacturing. We who have been here nearly all of our lives, have seen this coming. We are graduating students from college who do not have useful skills for employment. These folks have $82,000 in student debt and they have been defrauded by the system. No bank would loan these people money for a degree in Sociology, but our government guarantees the loan so the university can keep paying tenured professors who teach two classes a week.

We need qualified immigrants. When Madison Paper was running and owned by Millioski Oy, a Finnish citizen wanted to work at the mill. He had a master’s degree in paper technology. Our government would allow him to work for just two weeks. He had to return to Finland after the two weeks. Let’s make these skilled people legal.

The biggest bang for the buck that we have in public school education is our regional vocational high schools. Their students graduate with employable skills on Day 1.

[mainebrokerman]

many businesses along the coast hire ...foreign students….18 plus...come over here to work and then go back,,,

whats really going to also sting in 10 years....if/when more and more products are bought online.....and more small businesses close because of it....property taxes are going to skyrocket.. businesses pay a lot of taxes!!

nmlm I agree with you about the professors..
.
my son went 6 yrs an UNE to become a pharmacist ..
I paid (went in debt) for a big chunk of his student loans....but he still has much to pay back and he is...… he could make 25% more outside of maine…...but he values the beauty of maine….loves to fish hike....and snowmobile..

anytime we went south thru boston I let him drive.....and said....see this ratrace??? you can make more around here but spend 10 more hours a week in gridlock traffic in a concrete jungle????

[Kiwiluver]

Thank God for the G.I. Bill. Student Loans have ruined many a young persons life. I feel young people should be encouraged to go to a vocational program for two years, as when you do the math- a two year program can gain a graduate a nice paying job most times exceeding what an individual with a Master’s education saddled with a $500.00 a month debt can land. I am guilty of buying online. I get tired of buying things locally and store owners have the attitude, “ I am the only place in town, buy from me-or drive 100 miles over to Bangor and get it.”I bought a chainsaw from a local vendor in my town in Maine which cost me $780.00 and when it I had issues with it at my home in North Carolina, I took it to the repair shop and was informed the warranty was never entered into Husqvarna’s website. When I returned to Maine and went to the store to report my findings, it was basically,”oh well my bad sorry.” No renumeration was offered.Yes I will buy online when faced with such choices. The days of the only store in town are slowly winding down. This is not a Maine specific problem, it is across our nation. Wal-Mart, Family Dollar and the like exist solely to harvest the dollar we would spend at the local grocery, hardware, sporting goods store.Many of the local vendors brought it on themselves. On the other hand I have done business with many competent local businesses that I have felt wanted my business and were happy I chose to spend my hard earned dollars with.

[slyfox2]

Originally Posted by Kiwiluver

Thank God for the G.I. Bill.

Socialism at it best.

[Kid Ashbury]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

We are competing with states like Massachusetts and Connecticut where they pay as much as double what we are able to offer....We need qualified immigrants.

Nice try. Are you a Koch brother by chance?

"We don't want to pay more or support the wages our fellow Americans want, so we'll just bring in new people who will take lower wages" is the ultimate scumbag elitist move.

If you have a problem with how much teachers are payed, either petition local government to pay them more or feel free to donate some of your own money to cover the gap.

[Kiwiluver]

Originally Posted by slyfox2

Socialism at it best.

Not sure what you meant by that? Could you please elucidate on that comment? We’re you adding meaningful commentary to this discussion that I am not smart enough to decipher?

[Northern Maine Land Man]

" Nice try. Are you a Koch brother by chance? "

Nope. He died this week.

As to social security, if I had been able to administer what my employers and I had extorted from us over the years I would have a much more valuable asset than the meager payment that comes from the federal government.

That dip 9in the population of Mainers at age 65 or so is not real. They just make sure they are outside Maine for 183 days a year so they don't have to pay those huge taxes that we who stay pay. The demographic chart is factual. A little digging discloses the reasons it is factual.

[nalabama]

I think that what slyfox2 was saying was that when our government decided to give WWII veterans benefits under the GI Bil (benefits it was not contractually required to provide) it was one of the best decisions our country ever made. I agree with slyfox2.

I don’t know what social security benefits have to do with the original post in this thread. I don’t see any demographic chart or previous discussion about a dip in age 65 Mainers in posts prior to Northern Maine Land Man’s last post, but it also doesn’t seem to relate to the original poster’s comments. Perhaps someone can explain.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Happy to explain, nalabama. Maine has a shortage of working age people. Our population is declining in much of the state. If I post the reason here, the post will disappear. I would be happy to fill you in. LMK.

If we elders did not work, our society would grind to a halt. I was born before WWII and I work every day.

[mainegrl2011]

NMLM I've read your posts for years and oftentimes agree with much of what you have to say. If it was your intention to strike a nerve, consider it struck. You make some broad generalities (too broad imo) in your op. You paint millenials with a broad brush. You state, "Maine’s history, heritage, recreational opportunities and low cost of living are not impressive at all to the millennials living in the digital age." "Some" millennials may fit your opinion, but definitely not all. A good place to start gathering data would be some figures on those who hike annually in Baxter State Park and Acadia National Park, extend to the number who hike the entire AT annually. ....And really, they all have $82,000 in college debt? I know one who chose a major that wasn't conducive to employability and owes more than that. I know some others who have considerably less than that amount in college debt and they are both employed. Their college majors contributed to the jobs they have now.

About the guy from Finland. I have nothing against hiring skilled immigrants and helping them on the path to citizenship. He is not the reason that the paper industry in Maine is suffering or becoming nonexistent. We are becoming a "paperless society." If not totally paperless, a huge reduction in the use of paper. We are becoming a digital society that doesn't use as much paper now. A good friend of mine is a native Mainer and a chemical engineer. He worked in Maine paper mills as long as they continued in business and were willing to employ him--an extremely talented, skilled man. Eventually he continued to live in Maine and work in NH.

I am a firm believer in vocational high schools, apprenticeships, vocational colleges who typically require two years of post-secondary training, and working hard, keeping grades up and applying for scholarships to help or significantly fund a post-secondary education. Strive for excellence rather than settling for mediocrity.

For those who find a four-year degree necessary for the job of their dreams, I would not discourage them. One example ... I spoke with a student yesterday about to be a senior at UMO. She wants to be a physical therapist. She has three years of grad school ahead of her after a bachelor's degree. Will she be able to find a job? I have no doubts. There are other places where a person can become a physical therapist in six years rather than seven.

Was anyone forced to choose a college major that would not contribute to employability and to take it a step further, employability in Maine. Young people and their parents need to do their homework regarding education, job and career opportunities in Maine; the research needs to begin in middle school or earlier. A family member was thinking about his future a few years ago. I'm pretty sure that Maine Maritime had documentation regarding graduates employed in Maine in their field of study. This is useful information. Ask your potential college or university for this type of information. Some people go to college for the social experience, sororities, fraternities, partying. This is NOT true of ALL. Some are not thinking about employability after graduation.

State legislatures and local governing agencies are not particularly kind to teachers. More and more, they want more from teachers for as little money as possible. Maine saves ALOT of money by not having to pay employer FICA taxes for those employed by school systems. Teachers and other school system employees do not have FICA tax withheld from their pay. This means that teachers in Maine retire with a teacher retirement that they have paid into (it's not a gift) but are not eligible for social security benefits. Before anyone takes issue with this, do your homework.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/debtfre.../#2f20f38c571b

https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/wep.html#h0

Also Maine teachers must teach well into their 60's to avoid a retirement cut in their state retirement. There are states who offer a full retirement after 30 years of service. Teaching isn't all about money and/or lack of it. It's about respect, community support, administrative support, parental support, expecting students to behave in an appropriate manner with consequences for inappropriate behavior. When choosing where to apply for a job, all positive and negative factors must be considered.

There's a catchy little phrase that has become sort of a motto by the powers at be for schools, teachers, etc. "Do more with less." It can be applied in various situations. Additionally, I can't tell you the number of times (many) I've seen Ed Tech III positions advertised that should have been teaching positions. It doesn't cost as much to pay an Ed Tech III as it does to pay for a teaching position.

To Kiwiluver (and others): I'm sorry you had a negative experience with your chainsaw purchase. When it comes to where you purchase items, it pays to shop around. Ask others who are familiar with local businesses for their experiences and recommendations. In some cases, reviews are available online for local businesses.

There are still some young people with a work ethic. Whose responsibility is it to teach that? When should it be taught? How is it learned?


I think we are headed toward a shortage of teachers, a shortage of young people who go to college to become teachers. We may already be there. This may or not be a problem depending on your beliefs and the availability of going to school online.