A Bunch of Subversives in Central Maine (camp, building)

[Coaster]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

I remember when oil was $3 a barrel. We were shipping F-4 attack fighter/bombers to Israel. Saudi Arabia wanted some to balance the power in the Middle East. Henry Kissinger spoke with the Saudis and said that politics in the USA would not allow us to ship F-4s to the Saudis as foreign aid.

The Saudis said they didn't have the money to buy F-4s. Henry said to raise the price of oil to $30 a barrel.

But, nobody would buy our oil, said the Saudis.

Henry said they ought to get together with the other producers and set a price. OPEC was born, compliments of Henry Kissinger, and Americans waited in gas lines or bought gas every other day. The Saudis got their military jets.

Oh horse manure. OPEC was formed in 1960, long before Kissinger became a Washington power broker, and it was modeled after the Texas Railroad Commission. In its early years it was controlled by the major oil companies, which were almost to a man run by Texans. It was only with the spread of nationalist fervor and widespread nationalization of oil production facilities in the Arab world in the late 1960s that its Arab members began to realize the power they held. Before that, the price of oil -- $2 and $3 a barrel in those days -- had essentially been controlled by the price set by the Texas Railroad Commission for Texas crude.

OPEC got its chance to flex its oil-pricing muscle during the Yom Kippur War in October 1973. By then the U.S. was already importing more than half the oil it consumed, much of it from OPEC. The U.S. backed and supplied Israel and forced the Soviet Union to back down from its attempt to send troops to support its Arab clients against Israel. So in revenge OPEC created a shortage by cutting production and forcing prices up, (see here) first to $6-7 a barrel in 1974 and then, with the collapse of the Shah and the Iran-Iraq War in 1979, to $30 a barrel.

And the rest, as they say, is history.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

I don't disagree with any of that. OPEC could indeed have existed on paper as a product of he Texas oil companies and Royal Dutch Shell in 1960. Oil is the most efficient fuel we have. It is essentially an alternative currency. That said, when the value can falsely be manipulated, there is huge power that can be misused.

In Vietnam, a Royal Dutch Shell tanker truck could go anywhere and be unmolested. Why was that? Shell supplied the VC and NVA with thir fuel. At the time, I was a helicopter gun ship pilot. I was sorely tempted to fly an incendiary rocket up the back end of one of those big yellow trucks with the the big red Shell on it. I resisted the temptation. Meanwhile, our olive drab trucks needed overhead cover to get our fuel from place to place.

[mensaguy]

What is the connection between Kissinger, Yom Kipper, and the E-W Highway? I'm confused.

[Coaster]

Originally Posted by mensaguy

What is the connection between Kissinger, Yom Kipper, and the E-W Highway? I'm confused.

You and me both. I think NMLM is trying to draw a comparison between ... well, I'm not sure. I don't see the world through his conspiracy-tinted glasses, so it's difficult sometimes to follow the conversation. I just try correct his revisionist historical statements. The E-W Highway IMHO is related to oil supplies because, as I stated earlier, it makes no sense to build huge new highway infrastructure, especially one dedicated to high-speed heavy truck traffic, at a time when any reasonable analysis of oil supplies indicates that by the time the project is finished we'll be facing much higher fuel prices and probably outright shortages, making long-distance truck transport unprofitable. IMHO of course.

[Maineac]

The corridor will also contain as many pipelines as they can lease ground for, since it will be a minimum of 500' wide, and 2000' in some areas as planned, as well as electrical grid transmission lines, again, Canada to Canada.

I'd like to hear more about how these Socialist Grandmothers' plan is to destroy the Maine economy, inasmuch as they simply don't understand why it's SO important for Peter Vigue to retire to Florida a billionaire.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

The Earth first Hippies who survive become grandmothers. They tend to put their properties into perpetual easements that prevent all manner of efficient use of their land. They want to be buried on it and let it go "back to nature". The only way to remedy the contamination of the land is to take the easement away by eminent domain. If the pig farm in South Portland had been "forever protected" as farmland there would be no Maine Mall and no Jetport.

[AustinB]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

The Earth first Hippies who survive become grandmothers. They tend to put their properties into perpetual easements that prevent all manner of efficient use of their land. They want to be buried on it and let it go "back to nature". The only way to remedy the contamination of the land is to take the easement away by eminent domain. If the pig farm in South Portland had been "forever protected" as farmland there would be no Maine Mall and no Jetport.

I must be honest, I don't have a problem with people doing what they wish with their own property.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

I don't either. There is a guy up here who is buying narrow strips of land everywhere he can to shut down trail systems for snowmobiles and ATVs. It's his right while he owns it. It is the height of arrogance to think he can extend his whim for the next millennium. Like prohibition some 80 years ago, dumb rules can be overturned by smarter people.

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

I don't either. There is a guy up here who is buying narrow strips of land everywhere he can to shut down trail systems for snowmobiles and ATVs. It's his right while he owns it. It is the height of arrogance to think he can extend his whim for the next millennium. Like prohibition some 80 years ago, dumb rules can be overturned by smarter people.

"I don't either." Yes you do. You just said you did. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Your "rules" seem to only apply at your convenience and when it's politically acceptable to you. You despise Quimby doing what she wants with her land, yet you want the "freedom" to run your straightpipe into Cold Stream pond, clearcut to the shoreline and dump your waste oil wherever you desire. Anything that saves you or multinational corporations a buck. Or make Peter Vigue a billionaire. That's the mantra you exude. The "freedom" to insert or inject onself into and damage other's existences for your own convenience. That's what pollution is. That's why the lower Penobscot is closed to lobstering. That's why it's kinda stupid to eat a bass caught on the Penobscot below Millinocket. And the extremes? So it's either black or white. Either these Grandmothers have to agree with you, or they're "retired" Earth Firsters whose goal is "no human habitation." There's nothing in between. Warped. Simply warped.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

"you want the "freedom" to run your straightpipe into Cold Stream pond, clearcut to the shoreline and dump your waste oil wherever you desire."

The anonymous "Maineac" is a bald faced liar! He/she is not just promoting some delusional opinion. It is egregious perfidy.