2013 US News & world report Maine High School Rankings (Bangor: live in, small town)
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When a certain bedroom community tried to push to be consolidated with Bangor, it was made perfectly clear that they were not welcomed. Bangor had the numbers to remain free-standing and they would do so regardless. If was made clear that if the push continued, the requesting town would end up losing...in court. Go figure.
Today I read a column in the Bangor Daily online. It was about the diminishing number of kids playing baseball. My son plays, so I was intriqued. Column was okay, nothing groundbreaking, BUT as happens frequently, I found the readers' comments after the piece far more entertaining.
Someone criticized the author and brought up the fact that she (the author) was on the school board, and it was a definate dig.
I've thought about this before and come to this conclusion...Wealthier parents generally have the luxury of more free time. When you're not working 3 jobs in order to put a roof over your head and food on the table, you have a lot more time to devote to your kids.
This translates to more time spent volunteering at the schools and attending school meetings, more time helping kids with homework and projects, more time to taxi your kids to after-school activities, more time just being there for them.... All of these things help to make kids feel like they are a priority. They feel secure and loved. Kids who are content are obviously better students.
Of course, some wealthy folks take this too far. They put their little angels up on pedestals. Sure, they're raising good students, but they're also raising arrogant little snots...But I digress.
There's a happy medium and it's unfortunate when parents really want the best for their child, but they simply don't have enough hours in the day to devote to them.
Radio Flyer -- I think this is spot-on correct.
I have thought for years that the missing factor in the equation of "perceived school quality" is the parent community. I am convinced that in every case of a high-performing school in a middle-class area you will find robust participation of the parents in the school and in extra-curricular activities (coaching Little League, running Girl Scouts).
In wealthier areas, parents hire proxies to provide services such as SAT tutoring, coaching tennis and golf, etc. (of course that's a generalization). And those parents instill an acute fear of failure in their kids. Generally those kids do well on indicators such as standardized tests (and hs graduation and admittance to top colleges is expected). So again, correct, they perform well, but many of them are "arrogant little snots", but no family moving into an area is going to ask the real estate agent, "tell me, are the kids here arrogant little snots?"
The fact is: when a family is moving into an area, almost without exception one of their top priorities will be "HOW IS THE SCHOOL?". Real estate agents will proudly state on listings "Top Schools".
And how is this checked out? The real estate agent or prospective buyer will google the district and find the ratings -- based on the USNWR list. If the family is smart they will visit the schools, and if it is a "Top School" there is a good sense of self-esteem and pride in the principal and everyone else they talk to.
There are data sets that can be checked out -- graduation rate, % of students attending college, % of ESL, % on 'Free or Reduced Lunch'. Parents who know how to analyze the data understand what all those indicators mean.
In a community with High School data that read, for example, 65% graduation rate, 35% college attendance in 4-year universities, 70% ESL, and 75% on Free or Reduced Lunch -- there you will find houses that are "affordable", and generally their rating on the USNWR List will be middle to low, based on SAT scores.
You can argue with my analysis, but back it up with your own research. I work in schools in Maine, and have been involved in top schools (and not top schools) all over the US and overseas. I am convinced that, as Radio Flyer said so well, the actual success rate in schools has everything to do with parent community priorities, and less to do with teachers and administration.
Today I read a column in the Bangor Daily online. It was about the diminishing number of kids playing baseball. My son plays, so I was intriqued. Column was okay, nothing groundbreaking, BUT as happens frequently, I found the readers' comments after the piece far more entertaining.
Someone criticized the author and brought up the fact that she (the author) was on the school board, and it was a definate dig.
Because of this thread, I chuckled.
Yeah, it's a regular "As The School Board Turns" up there. I find it amusing since I don't have a child in a Bangor school. Others...not so much.
Still, they have attained "great achievements" so I guess whatever works for them. I can only presume that the residents are happy with their schools as things continue status quo.
There are many private high schools in Maine who have all the local students attending those schools. Most are call 'academies'. Mattanawcook Academy is an exception. I don't think any of the other schools are on the chart. Lee Academy is an example. Pick a number for your school before you look. What proportion of the students should graduate as 'college ready'? What's your number, 40%? 20%? If your school has a number lower than 40% of its graduating students, that school is doomed. Its students in the uneducated 60% are doomed.
Were there not some HS's here in Maine trying to skew those figures.. If I am correct the graduation rates are supposed to look at how many students are entering the school as a freshman and then graduating in 4 year years.. I know there were some schools that were looking at "just" seniors and making the school appear to have a better graduation rate... (how do we determine what percentage are college ready)
PS. Since we are talking about education in Maine for a good laugh search for father Sarducci's (remember him from way back) 5 min university
I've thought about this before and come to this conclusion...Wealthier parents generally have the luxury of more free time. When you're not working 3 jobs in order to put a roof over your head and food on the table, you have a lot more time to devote to your kids.
This translates to more time spent volunteering at the schools and attending school meetings, more time helping kids with homework and projects, more time to taxi your kids to after-school activities, more time just being there for them.... All of these things help to make kids feel like they are a priority. They feel secure and loved. Kids who are content are obviously better students.
Of course, some wealthy folks take this too far. They put their little angels up on pedestals. Sure, they're raising good students, but they're also raising arrogant little snots...But I digress.
There's a happy medium and it's unfortunate when parents really want the best for their child, but they simply don't have enough hours in the day to devote to them.
I see where your going but I totally do not think that this is at all causing wide spread disparity between wealthier communities and poor run down communities.. Its sad but gone are the days of hard working poor folk raising hard working good honest children... and though maybe I shouldn't say "gone" as in it doesn't exist but it certainly does not exist (as with your analogy) to the extent of having a major impact on large scale statistics.. Think of yesterdays news story of Italy having a major shortage of Pizza Makers... why would anyone want to work for little money when they can do nothing for it.. But I digress ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdinmigration
You can argue with my analysis, but back it up with your own research. I work in schools in Maine, and have been involved in top schools (and not top schools) all over the US and overseas. I am convinced that, as Radio Flyer said so well, the actual success rate in schools has everything to do with parent community priorities, and less to do with teachers and administration.
I don't argue with your analysis I just think I am looking at it from a different angle.... People say, geeze, why are these kids doing so well?? and not saying. Geeze, why are these kids doing so poorly. And then when we do we look for the wrong indicators. For me I go back to my parents, heck, my grand parents generation.. they didn't have mommy volunteering in school on Fridays and private tutors and they did much better then us in school! I look for what has changed since then, and what is the same. The kids that are failing are coming from broken homes with out any standards or values. For the most part poor people in the 40's were different then poor people today! And what you call snotty for me has nothing to do with their success in school (maybe in life) Its growing up in a home that has values and standards!
And I also know there is a lot more to it as in geography, genetics... High IQ people marry high IQ people ect. But values and standards should be a given and not something we have to reach for as human beings/parents. Wealthier communities have better schools because they do not have poor students coming from broken homes dragging down their schools. And again for me its the students who make the school.. I firmly believe any student can go to any school and receive a good education!
Last edited by flycessna; 04-30-2013 at 09:44 AM..
I have thought for years that the missing factor in the equation of "perceived school quality" is the parent community. I am convinced that in every case of a high-performing school in a middle-class area you will find robust participation of the parents in the school and in extra-curricular activities (coaching Little League, running Girl Scouts).
In wealthier areas, parents hire proxies to provide services such as SAT tutoring, coaching tennis and golf, etc. (of course that's a generalization). And those parents instill an acute fear of failure in their kids. Generally those kids do well on indicators such as standardized tests (and hs graduation and admittance to top colleges is expected). So again, correct, they perform well, but many of them are "arrogant little snots", but no family moving into an area is going to ask the real estate agent, "tell me, are the kids here arrogant little snots?"
The fact is: when a family is moving into an area, almost without exception one of their top priorities will be "HOW IS THE SCHOOL?". Real estate agents will proudly state on listings "Top Schools".
And how is this checked out? The real estate agent or prospective buyer will google the district and find the ratings -- based on the USNWR list. If the family is smart they will visit the schools, and if it is a "Top School" there is a good sense of self-esteem and pride in the principal and everyone else they talk to.
There are data sets that can be checked out -- graduation rate, % of students attending college, % of ESL, % on 'Free or Reduced Lunch'. Parents who know how to analyze the data understand what all those indicators mean.
In a community with High School data that read, for example, 65% graduation rate, 35% college attendance in 4-year universities, 70% ESL, and 75% on Free or Reduced Lunch -- there you will find houses that are "affordable", and generally their rating on the USNWR List will be middle to low, based on SAT scores.
You can argue with my analysis, but back it up with your own research. I work in schools in Maine, and have been involved in top schools (and not top schools) all over the US and overseas. I am convinced that, as Radio Flyer said so well, the actual success rate in schools has everything to do with parent community priorities, and less to do with teachers and administration.
I agree with you up until this point:
"I am convinced that, as Radio Flyer said so well, the actual success rate in schools has everything to do with parent community priorities, and less to do with teachers and administration."
Parents can be to blame if they simply yell "My little darling wouldn't do that!" fail to realize that there is an issue with a child, or don't assure that they attend class regularly; however, there have been plenty of times when I have spoken to the teachers about my little Good Time Charlene who would rather do anything but schoolwork with minimal results.
I've made it clear that she's to be held accountable by whatever means to get her schoolwork in on time. I can log on to see what she's missing, but oftentimes (and I mean oftentimes with a couple of teachers) the assignments have not been updated on the web page. Nowadays everything is online. I've logged on in the past to see that assignments I know she's passed in (as they were returned corrected - at least the few paper ones they have left) not updated until well after the assignment was due and then marked "late." Now, since admittedly she's also the Queen of Late Work, I always have to double check, but rest assured I do.
I've gotten on her laptop, and usually it's on Spotify and/or facebook, but I'll shut my mouth about how I feel the laptop program (for the larger less rural schools anyway) is a colossal waste of time and money since a lot of them now have smart phones/iPods/tablets that do everything.
Now before we all jump on the "Why does she have a facebook account?" bandwagon, I have the password, I patrol it like a Doberman Pinscher, and I take it away when necessary. If I were to banish it altogether, she (being a typical teenager) would simply go to her friend's house and create one. I'm not a parent who likes to kid herself about the sneakiness of her very typical kids.
I have no preconceived notions about my slacker kid. She's lost many fun things lately because of it, but I can only do so much here. I need them to insert boot too. When a parent makes it clear that they are supporting a teacher's disciplinary actions, the parent should not have to pay for the other needy parents who simply go in and yell at the teacher because their little Susie isn't making the grade.
I firmly believe that responsibility is a two way street, and casting concern to one side over the other is counterproductive. As far as administration is concerned, my observations are that if they feel that a particular program of instruction is the end all be all, they won't listen to the teachers who are trying to tell them it's junk. It's also a little annoying to go in and talk to a bobblehead principal who says what he can to simply placate and shut up a concerned parent and continue on status quo. Just my .02
I hear ya, Flycessna...There are definately many factors that contibute to higher scoring schools.
Concerning poor, crime ridden communities, I believe that kids that can rise above these circumstances and excel despite it all become the most well-rounded individuals.
Reloop...That has to be frustrating. Obviously, in your case, more time hasn't helped much. Your post illustrates that there are a lot of gray areas, for sure.
"I am convinced that, as Radio Flyer said so well, the actual success rate in schools has everything to do with parent community priorities, and less to do with teachers and administration."
Parents can be to blame if they simply yell "My little darling wouldn't do that!" fail to realize that there is an issue with a child, or don't assure that they attend class regularly; however, there have been plenty of times when I have spoken to the teachers about my little Good Time Charlene who would rather do anything but schoolwork with minimal results.
I've made it clear that she's to be held accountable by whatever means to get her schoolwork in on time. I can log on to see what she's missing, but oftentimes (and I mean oftentimes with a couple of teachers) the assignments have not been updated on the web page. Nowadays everything is online. I've logged on in the past to see that assignments I know she's passed in (as they were returned corrected - at least the few paper ones they have left) not updated until well after the assignment was due and then marked "late." Now, since admittedly she's also the Queen of Late Work, I always have to double check, but rest assured I do.
I've gotten on her laptop, and usually it's on Spotify and/or facebook, but I'll shut my mouth about how I feel the laptop program (for the larger less rural schools anyway) is a colossal waste of time and money since a lot of them now have smart phones/iPods/tablets that do everything.
Now before we all jump on the "Why does she have a facebook account?" bandwagon, I have the password, I patrol it like a Doberman Pinscher, and I take it away when necessary. If I were to banish it altogether, she (being a typical teenager) would simply go to her friend's house and create one. I'm not a parent who likes to kid herself about the sneakiness of her very typical kids.
I have no preconceived notions about my slacker kid. She's lost many fun things lately because of it, but I can only do so much here. I need them to insert boot too. When a parent makes it clear that they are supporting a teacher's disciplinary actions, the parent should not have to pay for the other needy parents who simply go in and yell at the teacher because their little Susie isn't making the grade.
I firmly believe that responsibility is a two way street, and casting concern to one side over the other is counterproductive. As far as administration is concerned, my observations are that if they feel that a particular program of instruction is the end all be all, they won't listen to the teachers who are trying to tell them it's junk. It's also a little annoying to go in and talk to a bobblehead principal who says what he can to simply placate and shut up a concerned parent and continue on status quo. Just my .02
When I talk about failing kids coming from broken homes ect that is not to say that every failing or struggling child is the fault of someone else.. Not every kid is made to be investment banker. We do what we can as responsible parents but even children are their own persons and we are at the mercy of a society that doesn't always agree with our ideals. And schools are almost in a worse position.. they should be able to just provide the material instead of being concerned with angry parents. IDK how a school can provide individual education to 1000 kids from all walks of life.. I always support the school and I have seen some terrible teachers and some not so good school districts. I try and explain to my children that in life not everything is going to go your way and you have to adapt and work with it.. a bad teacher could be representative of a bad boss on their future.. But its hard these days to get them to understand that life is HARD! I wish my kids could learn to appreciate a toy and wish my adult son could appreciate a job! But we do what we can. I love your comment about FB.. I didn't buy an xbox until my oldest was 14 but even then when I tried to limit its use every kid he was friends with had one. I have 3 boys who are ALL different.. Just want them to grow up with good values and learn to make themselves happy and not look for it in something or someone else..
Last edited by flycessna; 04-30-2013 at 11:47 AM..
When I talk about failing kids coming from broken homes ect that is not to say that every failing or struggling child is the fault of someone else.. Not every kid is made to be investment banker. We do what we can as responsible parents but even children are their own persons and we are at the mercy of a society that doesn't always agree with our ideals. And schools are almost in a worse position.. they should be able to just provide the material instead of being concerned with angry parents. IDK how a school can provide individual education to 1000 kids from all walks of life.. I always support the school and I have seen some terrible teachers and some not so good school districts. I try and explain to my children that in life not everything is going to go your way and you have to adapt and work with it.. a bad teacher could be representative of a bad boss on their future.. But its hard these days to get them to understand that life is HARD! I wish my kids could learn to appreciate a toy and wish my adult son could appreciate a job! But we do what we can. I love your comment about FB.. I didn't buy an xbox until my oldest was 14 but even then when I tried to limit its use every kid he was friends with had one. I have 3 boys who are ALL different.. Just want them to grow up with good values and learn to make themselves happy and not look for it in something or someone else..
Yep. Agreed.
"every kid is made to be investment banker." Oh AMEN! Thank you for saying it. I've long thought that. What I find sad is the number of 'alternative' students I know are sitting in special ed classes with eyes glazed over, who are among those who can't pass a test if their lives depended on it. Yet, they have remarkable and untapped engineering skills that surpass some who are better at testing. We are so missing out when we insist that kids make a certain grade as predetermined by some magical test score number IMO. This is not to mention how many have been completely turned off from school because of it.
I grew up with a few kids from broken homes and one who was the poster child for special ed. They didn't know what to do with him. One thing he was good at was tinkering with electronics. He's now a highly-successful robotics teacher in a vocational high school because one of the instructors he had took a chance and went to bat for him. Had this smart (and wonderful - his daughter is a friend) man not taken a chance on this poster child, who knows what would have happened? I can guarantee he wouldn't now be a highly-successful robotics teacher in a vocational high school. A lot's changed in education since then.
Another young man (whom I attended most of elementary school in his brother's class) is now a CEO of a fortune five hundred corporation. He came from a home which endured tragedy and uprooting (amid other happenings). Still, he managed to pull himself up.
And, for that matter, he totally stunk at taking tests. Fortunately he got better by the time he became of college-attending age. A little maturity goes a long way.
There is no one perfect way to educate children. I flop between feeling bad for teachers and being annoyed at them for not standing up to things they know won't work. Still, it's understandable in the fact that I'm sure that despite their love of teaching, they still have bills to pay just like the rest of us do.
PS: Good luck with that XBox. Mine had to buy his own - I can't stand the things. I'm such a killjoy.
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Glug, glug, glug...
Others...not so much.
