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Excellant subject, great opinions. Pretty much it comes down to "children are work". You have to be involved all along the way. You need to keep the lil dears busy busy busy. When they are at bored they look for entertainment and interaction any way they can, if it means causing trouble, they will Tha brain isn't fully developed (now they say) until twenty five years of age. Some things we think of as common sense doesn't make sense to them, it just does not compute. They need us to be nosy, and intrusive on their "space" to keep them safe as they get older. By the way,.. I don't see a thing wrong with a swat to the posterior as a "reset" when it's needed, but I don't care for the old "bend over my knee so I can spank you".
Do kids need to be spanked? Yes. The more than one then you are bully is debatable. But besides that, when we were in school, the kids that broke the rules where DRAGGED to the office, I'm not old enough to say that I was physically punished in school, but that is probably because they all knew my Dad and knew he'd take care of it. (Which I always deserved by the way).
Any way, here is the way I see it. The question is: What happened to the parents? The parents are the kids of the 80's that had their parents attacked in every shape and form regarding discipline. Yes, there are parents out there that state: "I will never raise my children the way my parents did, and become the flower tossing, sugar momma that we see in the stores like what you have.
Another scenario. Daddy is a big drug user and no matter what he does, thanks to the schooling system saying you have to express how you feel and deserve a right to be heard no matter what the situation, is always giving up with little effort. Thus, leaving the 100% neglected and ignored child at home to do what Daddy and Mommy do, drink, drug, and raise hell knowing that at best, they are going to get a slap on the wrist with no name in the paper and then its back to the same old same old.
Also this implies for the new parents that dont do drugs but have been trained by the media that you deserve this status and this lifestyle, and this look and if you do not have it or cant afford it, you are failure, thus leading to parents turning into themselves and seeing their children as nothing then an asset that they would rather hurry up and grow up and move out. And... like the druggy parents kids, they act out, trying to get attention, all negative, and cause a downward spiral together; the parents and the children.
In case some of you were not blessed to see some of the 80's great teachings, here is some that I remember.
If your parents spank you, leave the house and dial 911
You should tell your councler if you feel that you are not being listened to, we can bring in people that will interact with your parents and help them
(That, my friends was DHS, Department of Human Services, one call and your whole lifestyle is under a microscope, their could be a child being beaten on the front lawn, but if they can prove that you dont spend enough time with your kids, they can be placed in protection for 48 hours and then a judge must decide if your home is safe.) and THIS TERRIFIED THE CRAP OUT OF PEOPLE!
However, thanks to the Shofield case in Chelsea, Maine (Where the girl was asphyxiated with duck tape in the high chair by a case worker that worked specifically with these types of children?), people began to lax and think less about "whistle blowing".
But now... parents can be waste cases, be proven to be so, but NEVER lose their children... One extreme to the other I guess.
And now I go with my niece just recently to her first Kindergarten day and all the parents are pulled into the gymnasium for a meeting.
"Parents, if there is one piece of advise that I can give you in this day and age is demand respect from your children. If you kids will not respect you, they will not respect us (teachers, staff, principal, school rules). When they leave here, they will not respect authority, and after that will not respect others, whether its property, people... you get the idea. So please, have your children respect you, its better than anything we can teach here and probably wont be able to teach them anything else if they dont learn respect at home...
So, I say, we are stuck in a microwave, all for me and none for you society, and the media and their KIDS shows are more than ready to enhance it. The bottom line is the parents, without the parents, their is nothing.
With me. I have A.D.H.D. and was a very unruely child. My Dad had a crappy father to learn from so did nothing. My Mom raised my sister and I while doing specialised home care and going to school. We turned out alright. I was the kid that got " spoken to " by the police never arested. So I stayed on the line. Not in trouble but close. Church was mandatory till 18. Some values I didnt learn till later. I am very strict with my kids.( Own a buisness and ex-Police when in Mass) I own and am building a buisness up here too. I would rather yell at my kids in a crouded mall and have them listen and stay put while the rest of the mall thinks Im an ass. Than lose a child and panic my wife. I would rather have the town think Im an ass hole than a child abuser or neglectfull any day."OH he's just an ass hole but he does great work" And thats the worst any one Includeing my parents can say about me. My Dad and I have a great relatationship now. I still go to Church on my own. And I will stop for any one in distress. I guess I am also strick where my Dad did nothing for me I do the opposite. So maybe my kids wont go out drinking and smokeing weed at 14 or 15 like I did."learn from my mistakes so you dont have to". I grew out of the weed thing still as a teen. nothing exciting there but t.v. and chips. But the drinking was easy to stick with. I have over 15 years soboriaty. But those damn butts. I started smoking at 10 and have been trying to quit for 4 years. Nothing works. So when I hack up a lung or caugh so mucn I through up I make sure my son knows " this is from smoking, doesnt it look fun". I dont thing he will smoke. I guess my bottom line is To insist on making kids listen to our boring old storys of when we were f*** ups. Even if my son only gets 1/2 of what I say. He listened and learned. And final point I try to make. My Father in law died from a long bout with heart and liver problems from drinking and druging in his younger years. My brother in law died at 21 in a drunk driving accident. He was the driver and only one in the car. Kids need to know what you do now WILL affect you later. Thank all of you for your wonderful points made here in this thread. Being a third time parent with 2 daughters I am sooooo glad there people out there that still bestow morrals into there kids so there friends will be safe too.
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Tha brain isn't fully developed (now they say) until twenty five years of age. Some things we think of as common sense doesn't make sense to them, it just does not compute. They need us to be nosy, and intrusive on their "space" to keep them safe as they get older. By the way,.. I don't see a thing wrong with a swat to the posterior as a "reset" when it's needed, but I don't care for the old "bend over my knee so I can spank you".
nice posts all 
