Madison: Good place to speak your mind? (fit in, homes)

[organica]

My wife and I live in Asheville, NC and though it may be labeled as "progressive", we still have trouble being able to speak our minds. We are both vegetarians, yet no person we have met wants to hear about it and perhaps learn about why we are. We believe in a clean environment thats pesticide free and has clean air, yet when we talk about how we can get things cleaned up, people don't want to listen (some get downright hostile actually).

We want to move to Madison, but we must know if people are open enough and willing to learn and discuss the moral concerns we have (as I believe we all should be concerned) with the state of our environment. Would we fit in there? Is the community a bit more educated and less stubborn and afraid of change (enough to get angry and crazy about it)?

We have learned from living in the South for many years, that people here (for the most part) are unwilling and unmoving. They seem to be extremely offended if we bring up topics of moral question.

[golfgal]

Perhaps it is HOW you bring things up that offends people. I have to say that even in your short post you come across as being pushy with your ideas. Most midwesterners are not going to warm up to someone that is pushy/preachy about anything. Lead by example is the best way to do things around here. I would have to say also that most people are not really going to care why you are a vegetarian but they will respect that you have chosen that way of life.

[organica]

Yes, I can understand how the post could sound like I'm being preachy. I'm afraid there was a bit of frustration in that post as well. My wife and I recently had an incident with some people at a party. We were challenged about our vegetarianism and in this particular situation these people were not willing to learn from us even though they were the ones whom asked us about it. We find in our many years here in the south that people are not willing to learn after they ask and, more importantly, they do not want to teach others either.

My wife has lived in California, Boston, and grew up in the mid west. She has never seen such a blockage of knowledge than here in the south. I have never left the south. I am definitely as southern as you can get, but I like to learn and teach when asked.

We are not preachy at all. In fact, I pretty much keep my mouth shut most of the time. The original post really boils down to trying to see if Madison is a place were we can learn when we ask and teach when being asked. Without going back to college.

[nanannie]

I spent alot of time in Asheville,thought it was very progressive,generally speaking.I have to ask,why you care what others think? If you are satisfied and fulfilled with your choices in life(veg-heads-me too!) then se la vie! I have to agree,I dont bring up my vegetarian ways to others ('specially while they are eating burgers)and even when asked,I keep my answers short and sweet,If they REALLY want to know facts,I direct them to a favorite web site or such (NOT a site like Peta-or a shock site,which can stir emotion and cause semi wars).That subject brings up differing opinions,certainly in most of Wisconsisn,,home of the sat nite prime rib special

[organica]

Originally Posted by nanannie

I spent alot of time in Asheville,thought it was very progressive,generally speaking.I have to ask,why you care what others think? If you are satisfied and fulfilled with your choices in life(veg-heads-me too!) then se la vie! I have to agree,I dont bring up my vegetarian ways to others ('specially while they are eating burgers)and even when asked,I keep my answers short and sweet,If they REALLY want to know facts,I direct them to a favorite web site or such (NOT a site like Peta-or a shock site,which can stir emotion and cause semi wars).That subject brings up differing opinions,certainly in most of Wisconsisn,,home of the sat nite prime rib special

Well, it's not that I care what other people think. It's really how I care to educate people to the moral and environmental atrocities that meat eating contributes to. Unfortunately, people are sheltered from most of the truths behind the industry. I feel it necessary to at least leak some of this info to people and let them make up their own minds. I don't want to go into multiple gory details because I know this is not that kind of forum, but I will give two to prove my point.

1. Would you not want to educate other people that millions of euthanized dogs and cats from L.A. are being shipped to mid-west cattle grain manufacturing plants?

2. Would you not want to educate other people that the amount of freshwater that goes into drinking water for one cow, plants (lettuce, tomato, onion, grain for cow), washing produce and cow remnants, and growing grain for bread in order to produce ONE hamburger is enough fresh water to float an aircraft carrier? Many people in the west have to pay $200-$500 a month for precious fresh water to be pumped into their homes. Why are we wasting several months supply of water for one home on one hamburger?

Ok, enough.

And yes, sending people to PETA sites shock them, but it should! Yes, the truth is shocking, but don't Americans fight for truth and justice? We get angry at the clothing manufacturing companies when we find out some of our clothing is made by children; so, why would people get angry at me when I tell them the burger industry is taking much of our drinking water and feeding our deceased pets to the cattle so people can eat remnants of their dead pets at McDonalds? And what about the Tobacco Industry? If I told everyone about the horrible things the Tobacco industry has done to our people, the only people who would get angry at me would be smokers. Wouldn't you feel it would be morally necessary to at least tell a smoker that they are harming themselves and many others? I won't even go into the health epidemic our country is going through.

[nanannie]

I dont disagree with anything you say,there is tragedy galore.But to have one preach and force teach often causes the "dukes" to go up and turns more people away then creates a "convert".IMHO....You are speaking to people who have lived there whole lives a certain way,and nothing magical you can say will change them in another direction.The facts and TRUTH are out in plain site for those with the will to learn and evolve.It just goes against human nature as an adult to be force fed information.Once again,you have no arguement from me about whats the reality behind our burgers,our clothing etc.Many have evolved to a new way of life,out of choice.I choose to teach by example and offering education of what we have learned.,,AT LEAST I TRY .I refuse to point out the sins of eating a steak when no one asked, which would make me sound like a tv preacher..Just my opinion,but I think its true in Madison,Asheville or LA

[organica]

Originally Posted by nanannie

I dont disagree with anything you say,there is tragedy galore.But to have one preach and force teach often causes the "dukes" to go up and turns more people away then creates a "convert".IMHO....You are speaking to people who have lived there whole lives a certain way,and nothing magical you can say will change them in another direction.The facts and TRUTH are out in plain site for those with the will to learn and evolve.It just goes against human nature as an adult to be force fed information.Once again,you have no arguement from me about whats the reality behind our burgers,our clothing etc.Many have evolved to a new way of life,out of choice.I choose to teach by example and offering education of what we have learned.,,AT LEAST I TRY .I refuse to point out the sins of eating a steak when no one asked, which would make me sound like a tv preacher..Just my opinion,but I think its true in Madison,Asheville or LA

I appreciate the response, but I'm afraid you have not read my posts carefully. Never did I say I'm FORCING this upon people. It may appear that I have been forcing, but I have explained enough in the previous posts to show that I have not forced anything on anybody. You and golfgal have come to the conclusion that I force based upon assumptions. Never did I say I'm trying to "convert" anybody. I said I'm trying to "educate". I am stating that when people ask, I respond with truth. Then those people get upset with me over the truth.

I too choose to teach by example, but how can one teach by example when the example is feared, upsetting, confusing, or made fun of? Some things just need to be verbally explained in order for people to understand. What is the smoking section in a restaurant going to learn from the non-smoking section? The non-smokers are teaching by example are they not? The smokers need to be verbally taught as well. Our teachers tell young students about the dangers of smoking and drugs in school, right? In fact, the teachers are forcing their opinions and facts on the children as they should be in regards to those two subjects. Well, yes, at least you try, but trying is usually not enough if you want to succeed.

I think the subject of vegetarianism is just in its infancy and the majority of people do not understand it. And most people get upset or defensive about things they do not understand.

In the 1850's, people feared the idea of having blacks free to own land and work to make money. There were plenty of "semi wars" (a paralell to your comment on people's potential responses to viewing sites like PETA) during that decade. The multiple "semi wars" turned into a major war in 1861. We all know the outcome. Did these skirmishes and full on war happen because people were leading by example? It took writers, journalists, and people willing to speak the moral truth when asked and when not asked in order to educate enough people to make a positive difference for our country.

I just can't be quiet and just lead by example hoping that someone will put two-and-two together. This applies to anything I see as immoral. A neighbor who abuses his/her child will not learn by my example of not abusing mine. There's so many other examples I could write about.

[nanannie]

You are right,It did appear that way to me,I did get that impression,sorry.However,good luck with your move

[golfgal]

Quite frankly educating and forcing is a fine line in this situation. Personally I don't agree with much of what you have posted having lived in farm country for many, many years. I just don't see things your way. I also don't think that your 'education' will go over well in most areas of Wisconsin, which you may or may not know is one of the top beef producing states in the US.

[organica]

Originally Posted by nanannie

You are right,It did appear that way to me,I did get that impression,sorry.However,good luck with your move

No problem. And thank you, we will need to luck!