Large wind farm planned for Hale County (Dallas, Lubbock: 2014, oil)

[High_Plains_Retired]

I've always thought sail-cars would work well out here although I'm not sure how a keel would work on asphalt and concrete. Also, it would be rather tough in the summertime for me to sail to Lubbock from my house which is NW of town. I'd have to do a lot of "tacking."

Seriously though, if gasoline gets any lower in Texas, alternative energy sources of energy stand less chance for successful start ups. I noticed last week gasoline in some parts of Texas was in the $2.60s. I think wind energy is done deal here on the High Plains though. Prior to the Rural Electric Administration, many of the farms out here had wind turbines for limited electricity.

[High_Plains_Retired]

Looks like this thing is going to be a lot larger than what I had thought!

This has little effect on me personally except to greatly increase the tax base of the area and along with it, possibly the value of my property and its taxes. Maybe my daughter will actually be able to get something for this old place after I'm finished with it? One very interesting point here from the article is JOBS:

“The actual construction of the wind turbines will bring a lot of temporary jobs into the area,” Curtis King, Tri Global’s Senior Vice President of Investor Relations said. “And once we get the wind farm up and running, there will be at least 100 permanent jobs. These will be high-paying jobs. It’s not something that will be around for just 10 years — wind farms will be a permanent fixture that will go on for several generations.”

Texas developer creates world's largest wind farm - North Texas e-News

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by JG_Latakia

P.S. I also came across this article, which was posted in July. It says that a wind farm will be developed to the southeast of Lubbock.
Cielo to build wind farm near Lubbock - Austin Business Journal

Ooops. That article was published in July 2003, not July 2013.

[OpenD]

Aloha y'all.

I don't live in Texas anymore, and haven't been in Lubbock for maybe a dozen years so I'm not up to date on what all is happening there any more. But I tripped over this thread when I was looking for something else, and thought I'd share what I know about wind power.

I live on the Big Island of Hawai'i now, and since all our oil has to be shipped from thousands of miles away, there's a big push to switch to renewable energy sources... hydro, solar, wind, geothermal, hydrothermal, biomass, tide power, and wave power. Currently our electric utility buys 40% of our electricity from independent producers using the above sources. The balance is generated from utility company generators burning naphtha or residual oil, which is barged over from a refinery near Honolulu.

I live about 30 miles from a 20 mW second-generation wind farm at South Point which has been running for about 3 years, after replacing a first-generation 7.5 mW wind farm that was productive for 20 years. The newer equipment is expected to have longer service life.

Originally Posted by High_Plains_Retired

I've continued to think the only local people who will make much money on these things are the large land owners who lease their land. However, according to the payout chart I saw, even they won't make much for years down the road.

I don't know what the business model is for these Texas developments, but I do know the farmers who are leasing land near Van Wert, Ohio for new wind turbines are paid about $8,000/yr per tower, and very little land is actually taken out of production for growing crops or raising cattle.

The equipment itself typically has a financial payback equal to 3-4 years of energy production, so even in the days of 20 year service life they were profitable to operate, but now that expected life is edging upward to 25, maybe 30 years, profitability can be expected to rise as well. Of course the payback is not front-loaded, but is spread out over a longer period, but that indicates the relative proportions involved. No fuel costs, yes maintenance costs, yes lease and shareholder costs, no toxic waste cleanup costs. Where the wind is abundant, it is an increasingly viable business, and yes, increasingly valuable to farmers and ranchers who are being pressed hard by the drought.

I'm certainly not opposed to wind generated power as I am even looking into a small one for this farm. However, one of my primary concerns for the big turbines is what happens to them once they get old? Will they become a forest of rusting eyesores on the landscape where the company has long since taken their profits and vanished? I hope not but as the old saying goes, "I wasn't born under a cabbage leaf."

There was a problem in the early deployment of wind farms when there was insufficient end-stage planning, and some companies just bailed on decommissioning their equipment, despite the residual value to be recaptured through recycling. The best current plans include full life-cycle analysis, and escrow accounts to pay for full removal at the end of effective service life.

Originally Posted by High_Plains_Retired

Seriously though, if gasoline gets any lower in Texas, alternative energy sources of energy stand less chance for successful start ups. I noticed last week gasoline in some parts of Texas was in the $2.60s. I think wind energy is done deal here on the High Plains though. Prior to the Rural Electric Administration, many of the farms out here had wind turbines for limited electricity.

Keep in mind that it's not just a matter of cost. Wind turbines have no harmful emissions, produce no CO2, and require no fuel. They are part of the total energy portfolio because so many communities have renewable energy and air pollution goals to meet, and if they can't produce them locally, they have to purchase them from places where usable wind is abundant... like Texas!

And for that matter, the state is also prime territory for solar power farms, which I predict will be a later wave of development. Today's prairie ranch might have a small windmill with a generator, like our ancestors used to have... to help top off the batteries at night when the sun isn't shining on the PV panels on the roof.

[High_Plains_Retired]

Originally Posted by OpenD

I don't know what the business model is for these Texas developments, but I do know the farmers who are leasing land near Van Wert, Ohio for new wind turbines are paid about $8,000/yr per tower, and very little land is actually taken out of production for growing crops or raising cattle.

It is my understanding that the plan for the 160(?)-turbine farm near Petersburg, Texas includes payouts for anyone within the footprint of the farm who leases their land to Tri-Global. In other words, you don't have to have a turbine physically on your land but you do have to have a lease. Also I believe there are two types of participants, the ones who just lease and ones who lease and invest. I don't know if this same business plan applies to the other local wind farms that seem to be merging with the Petersburg/Abernathy farm.

Although I attended one meeting with Tri-Global representatives and land owners a couple of years ago, I've not continued to follow this thing except to read news articles. However, I've been around the South Plains off and on for over forty years and much of what one hears about these sort of things (ethanol plants, wind farms, Kodak plants, cheese factories, etc.) is more anecdotal than fact and not very trustworthy. Living out here here one quickly learns to only believe half of what you see, nothing that you hear and even less of what you read in internet forums.

My greatest concern if any of this is true is that my now somewhat isolated farm will be soon be surrounded by huge wind turbines in every direction. Believe me, no one has "cussed" Texas South Plains winds more than me. If someone had told me just a few years ago that, during my lifetime, these winds would have had any value beyond blowing the hat off your head, I would have called them a liar. However, if in fact west Texas wind becomes a commodity traded on Wall Street, I'm not one to stand in the way of Wall Street but they had better have a fat wallet.

[augiedogie]

I'd be surprised if any more of these are built. Many of these projects were put up because of govt. subsidies. With Natgas at such a low price and abundant, and the subsidies not flowing as before from Wash DC., these projects are just not going to be what they were before. From what I've heard, the long term viability of these big windmills is nil. They have a short lifespan, require a lot of maintenance, and don't pay for themselves.

[High_Plains_Retired]

Originally Posted by augiedogie

I'd be surprised if any more of these are built.

I hope you are right.

[augiedogie]

Well, you could have knocked me over with a feather, but Xcel just announced they will build 698 megawatts of wind power generating capacity in our area. But it doesn't sound like its by HPR. Its in three groups. Some in NM, some in the panhandle, and another group in Oklahoma.

[winkosmosis]

Originally Posted by augiedogie

I'd be surprised if any more of these are built. Many of these projects were put up because of govt. subsidies. With Natgas at such a low price and abundant, and the subsidies not flowing as before from Wash DC., these projects are just not going to be what they were before. From what I've heard, the long term viability of these big windmills is nil. They have a short lifespan, require a lot of maintenance, and don't pay for themselves.

I've seen people post similar stuff on Facebook... But it's not true. Wind power is very cheap and the ROI for a wind turbine is only a few years.

A nuclear power plant takes 20 years to pay for itself!

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by augiedogie

I'd be surprised if any more of these are built. Many of these projects were put up because of govt. subsidies. With Natgas at such a low price and abundant, and the subsidies not flowing as before from Wash DC., these projects are just not going to be what they were before. From what I've heard, the long term viability of these big windmills is nil. They have a short lifespan, require a lot of maintenance, and don't pay for themselves.

25 years ago that might have been true, but today's wind farm industry is not your grandpa's windmill.

The first generation turbines had an operational life of about 20 years, but the technology evolved so rapidly that older units were rapidly obsoleted, and parts were hard to find at the end of their service life. Today's turbines last longer, and industry figures show they pay back their investment in 3-4ears, typically leaving 20 years of production to pay operational costs, leases, dividends, and etc.

And in all that time they don't require a drop of fuel to operate, nor do they emit any carbon dioxide or other pollutants, which is why they are an important part of today's energy portfolio.