Express Lanes (Orange: moving, area, permit)

[Twinkle Toes]

Originally Posted by thefunkyone

The point of the dividers is to stop the people who want to zig zag in and out of traffic and change through several lanes at once. This is a major cause of traffic back ups. A physical concrete barrier prevents this.

I still don't see how a concrete barrier would help. I've never seen slow zig zaggers, so I don't know why you are saying they are the cause of traffic backups. Now, if we had a bunch of people zig zagging at 30 mph, I could see that backing up traffic. If there were room for it, more freeway lanes would help to ease congestion.

[thefunkyone]

Originally Posted by Twinkle Toes

I still don't see how a concrete barrier would help. I've never seen slow zig zaggers, so I don't know why you are saying they are the cause of traffic backups. Now, if we had a bunch of people zig zagging at 30 mph, I could see that backing up traffic. If there were room for it, more freeway lanes would help to ease congestion.

Because those people tend to make others behind them nervous. Thats when the brake tapping starts.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Twinkle Toes

I still don't see how a concrete barrier would help. I've never seen slow zig zaggers, so I don't know why you are saying they are the cause of traffic backups. Now, if we had a bunch of people zig zagging at 30 mph, I could see that backing up traffic.

Zig-zaggers are ten times worse then left lane blockers, and that is saying a lot. They are the stupidest drivers on the planet. I can't count the number of times I'm driving along in traffic at a nice stead speed. Suddenly one of these zig-zaggers cuts in front of me, and I have to apply my brakes.

Typical situation: I spot the zig-zagger zigging in front of the car in front of me. That car's brake lights come on. I apply my brakes. Then of course the car behind me applies his brakes, and the car behind him, etc. So we all lose 10 mph of speed. Just so this idiot can play his little game. Then as soon as we get spaced out again, and every thing stabilizes. The zig-zagger zigs back into the other lane. Then the brake lights in that lane all come on. Three or four minuets later after he has zig-zagged through a couple of other lanes. I have to apply my brakes again, when the same driver zigs back into my lane. But this time he is not in front of the car in front of me, he is right in front of my car. The situation repeats again, and again, and he ends up somewhere behind me.

And these zig-zag drives never ever seem to get a clue, that they are not saving any time. And that they are actually costing themselves and everyone else on the freeway time, by screwing up the flow of traffic. As I said before, they are the worst drives on the road.

Back on the original subject of this thread. Yes, I think well designed express lanes would do way more to improve traffic, then the current underutilized car pool lanes. Toronto is probably the best example of were it works well.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by thefunkyone

Why does LA not have these? Whenever I drive through Chicago they come in so handy.



For those of you who might not be familiar with this concept. Express lanes are essentially 2 or more lanes built next to the regular lanes on a freeway, similar to car pool lanes but anyone can use them. Also, express lanes are divided by a concrete barrier and every few miles there is an opening for you to get back to the regular lanes to take a local exit.

They are perfect for zipping through one part of the city to another without having to get backed up in the congestion from people getting off and on the freeway.

Yes that would be good.

[Arus]

Why not subsidize more on the public transportation (provide an end of year tax credit if you use public transportation more than 50% of the year?) and not worry about express lanes at all?

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Arus

Why not subsidize more on the public transportation (provide an end of year tax credit if you use public transportation more than 50% of the year?) and not worry about express lanes at all?

Because Californians are too car oriented. They already spend thousand of dollars a year on car payments, registration, insurance, (not counting gas and maintenance) on their cars. The additional cost of also taking public transport would not be offset the tax credit. It just wouldn't make economic sense for them to do it.

Plus what makes you think that people who are already so obsessed with their cars. That they are willing to sit two or three hours a day, in some of the worst traffic in the country would ever ride public transit under any circumstances?

Trust me, the tax credit would be a waste. People who already use public transit would take advantage of it. Those who drive, would continue to drive.

[readymade]

I recently read that you are three times more likely to get in an accident while changing lanes, and it only saves you a minute or two in most cases.

[HarryKerry]

The real answer is that CalTrans has some good reason not to like using them down here. CalTrans has different policies regarding carpool lane design, use and such technology tailored for different parts of the state and, presumably, different behavior. For example, CalTrans carpool lanes in the SF Bay area allow for entry and exit at just about any point of the lane and no barriers. However, CalTrans does not like that down here because we have more and worse traffic, so in the LA area, you are not permitted to enter or exit the carpool lane for miles until reaching a key point along the way.

The truth is, each state, county or transportation agency has its own "philosophy" or view based upon its unique traffic, highway system, and behavior attitude of its drivers. For example, in Georgia, they LOVE the carpool lane left hand exits to local streets. This non-intuitive design was believed to be the cause of a horrific bus accident when the drivers presumed the car pool lane continued, when, in fact, he had mistakenly veered onto the left hand exit it plowed through to the other side of the freeway. Georgia Transportation takes the view that it is "safer" to have left hand exits to local streets in carpool lanes because cars do not have to make lane changes all the way to the right hand side. And Gerogia said they will build MORE left hand local exit streets in spite of the accident.

Meanwhile, Cal-Trans is busy trying to eliminate every left hand exit to local streets and left hand transition lanes to connection freeways (the only exception being to build left and carpool transition roads that would put the car into the carpool lane of the connection freeway). CalTrans considers them non-intuitive and dangerous. Clearly these two states have very different views about what works and is "safe." These agencies should have traffic studies to support their views.

Frankly, I'll take CalTrans unparalleled experience and engineering, having been the only state to build state highways/freeways that EXCEEDED Federal standards (and probably still do) and the most built that were the model for the nation when many were constructed back in the 1950's , over Georgia's trans dept. Every major CalTrans improvement project, like the terrible 5, 91, interchange and the Orange Crush, results in, my opinion, a much more intuitive and safer driving experience.

[tygayolo415]

Originally Posted by thefunkyone

Why does LA not have these? Whenever I drive through Chicago they come in so handy.



For those of you who might not be familiar with this concept. Express lanes are essentially 2 or more lanes built next to the regular lanes on a freeway, similar to car pool lanes but anyone can use them. Also, express lanes are divided by a concrete barrier and every few miles there is an opening for you to get back to the regular lanes to take a local exit.

They are perfect for zipping through one part of the city to another without having to get backed up in the congestion from people getting off and on the freeway.

First of all, the express lanes in Chicago also experience congestion. Secondly, traffic patterns in both cities are subject to different sets of variables.

[wrcousert]

Originally Posted by readymade

Out of curiosity (and I don't mean to sound insensitive), but why do disabled people get to drive in the carpool lane? Parking spaces, I get. But what does being disabled have to do with carpooling?

It does seem a bit strange. I think maybe this should be limited to those who can prove they have a real need to use it AND can't afford to pay to ride in the toll lanes.

Why do seniors automatically get a discount at some restaurants? Shouldn't it be limited to low income seniors?