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Moving from Philly to somewhere in the LA vicinity- TBD, in about 3 weeks. My husband and I gave up having cars a few years ago since we can bike or use public transit to get everywhere we need to go in Philly, (even though most people are afraid to ride the streets here like we do and it's not known as a "bike friendly" city, it's really not bad at all.)
We're not planning on GETTING a car and wondering if people DO ever bike INSTEAD of drive anywhere, even just in their own neighborhoods? It's not uncommon for us to go up to 10 miles round trip for groceries on our bikes and we enjoy it, but I'm wondering how the general population will react to seeing us since it doesn't look too bike friendly in the sense that most think of- no real bike lanes, and I didn't see many bike racks around on google maps, either.
It's fine with us about those parts because we have enough sense to stay OFF the streets where cars travel excessively fast and we abide by the same rules we did in our cars- with one exception- we make SURE people are aware of us on the street and of our intentions, etc.- as if we think we're INVISIBLE.
Unlike those who give cyclists a bad name, we DON'T skip stop signs, lights, etc. or go the wrong way down one way streets or ride on the sidewalks.
So given that, is it possible that we can survive without a car, assuming we also use public transit and car-sharing if available where we move to?
And will people be largely respectful of us if we don't act like idiots on the streets on our bikes?
Moving from Philly to somewhere in the LA vicinity- TBD, in about 3 weeks
is it possible that we can survive without a car, assuming we also use public transit and car-sharing if available where we move to?
And will people be largely respectful of us if we don't act like idiots on the streets on our bikes?
Where are you moving to?
Anything is possible but 99.9% of people (that have a family income more than $15K/year) use a car.
Anything is possible but 99.9% of people (that have a family income more than $15K/year) use a car.
Really....Do you have a statistic for that, and if not, what, exactly were you implying?
That isn't relevant to my question, either, even if it is true.
Did your answer accomplish what you set out to do?
I've lived in and visited Philly. People don't seem to respect the bike lanes from what I remember when riding through town.
I haven't been to L.A., but Philly isn't omptimal, L.A. is probably MUCH WORSE as few neighboorhoods seem as pedestrian friendly as philly and major thouroughfares are ALL ABOUT DEM WHEELS AND NOTHING ELSE.
Even in Philly, it would seem like a hassle to be carless if you lived anywhere else around the skeleton of the Orange Line and EL train.
Like for people in Chestnut Hill, Roxborough or the Far Northeast, I don;t think they can rely on SEPTA outside of the pricey regional rail to get to downtown.
Generally speaking it depends on where you will be working.
I've been studying metro area settlements and from what I see in maps, LA isn't nearly as pedestrian friendly as parts of Philly are. Although settlements are surprisingly dense, everything seems strickly zoned residential OR commercial along certain strips.
Seeing as how L.A. is MUCH WIDER IN AREA that Philly is, unless you are living RIGHT next to your workplace. You'd better rent a car as LA traffic is legendarily bad and it's rail system is minimal compared to east coast cities. Despite remnants of and some semblance of town centers, It's real suburban in design. Think like Eastern Delaware County, Lower Montgomery County (Cheltenham, Jenkintown, Abington and surrounding areas) in Pennsylvania. Or like The Far Northeast or East Oak Lane in Philly (only with much smaller houses)
They have extensive bus service but as most will tell you, local service buses get stuck in the same traffic and I don't know how zippy their Rapid and Express services are cause I don't live there.
Simply put, until you tour the area and talk to insiders, plan on at least renting a car because it's tough to get along with out one outside Central L.A. from everything I have heard and seen.
Last edited by waltlantz; 08-05-2010 at 07:16 AM..
Really....Do you have a statistic for that, and if not, what, exactly were you implying?
Did your answer accomplish what you set out to do?
I am implying 1) The higher the income the less likely a person is to commute by any means other than a car and 2) Very few people in Southern California commute by bicycle.
"The vast majority of Southern Californians are holding tenaciously to the privacy and convenience of their own cars...a system that has mostly served low-income workers who don't have the option to drive."
I've lived in and visited Philly. People don't seem to respect the bike lanes from what I remember when riding through town.
There are hardly any bike lanes here to begin with- and even though they put new ones in on Spruce and Pine, it didn't change a thing about the way we ride on THOSE streets nor have my husband or I ever had any problems with people in cars.
Bike lanes are nearly useless anyway unless they're on an extremely busy, high speed road- or at least on one where the cars don't have to stop every block or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltlantz
I haven't been to L.A., but Philly isn't omptimal, L.A. is probably MUCH WORSE as few neighboorhoods seem as pedestrian friendly as philly and major thouroughfares are ALL ABOUT DEM WHEELS AND NOTHING ELSE.
So, I take it that you've never ridden a bike on either Philly or LA streets? How is it that "few neighborhoods seem as pedestrian friendly as Philly?" I'm not being sarcastic, most of the neighborhoods we've looked at there have very little car traffic except, as you said, on "major thoroughfares," and as I said, THOSE aren't the streets we'd be riding our bikes on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltlantz
Even in Philly, it would seem like a hassle to be carless if you lived anywhere else around the skeleton of the Orange Line and EL train.
Believe it or not, riding a bike is not "a hassle," nor does it make one "careless." In fact, whenever I have to get a PhillyCarShare, I find THAT to be a BIG pain in the butt...looking for parking, worrying about getting ticketed, etc, and after over 2 years of riding my bike, (and yes, I do live in "Center City," about 4 blocks from the Liberty Bell,) I actually feel LESS safe in a car, so does my husband, because a car can't quickly dart around a problem and you don't have the option of jumping off of it onto the sidewalk if things get hairy...or so congested that you can WALK to an intersection by doing so and get to the light BEFORE the CAR in front of you did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltlantz
Like for people in Chestnut Hill, Roxborough or the Far Northeast, I don;t think they can rely on SEPTA outside of the pricey regional rail to get to downtown.
I grew up in the Far Northeast, just inside the city border, and my uncle took the regional rail every day into downtown instead of driving his car- it was cheaper, for one thing, and for him, more convenient, again, no hassle with parking, which is VERY expensive here- and more so if your meter runs out- you may've seen the show on A&E called "Parking Wars" about how bad it is. Oh, and my husband was working OUTSIDE the city about 20 miles and we got rid of the cars after we realized how much more money it cost to KEEP them just for that commute. Regional rail saved us $$$ a year.
I agree that I wouldn't be riding my bike if I lived more than 5 miles from the things I needed to get to- THAT'S why I posted this in the first place.
It looks to me, though, like there are plenty of neighborhoods in which we could live, like Santa Monica, and rely on just the bike to get everything we need like we do now, and get a ZipCar or LAXcarshare or take public trans to do most anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltlantz
Generally speaking it depends on where you will be working.
Of course it does if we're only talking about how my husband will get to work from where we decide to live, which is also why we are looking at neighborhoods that ARE near certain commercial strips AND public transportation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltlantz
I've been studying metro area settlements and from what I see in maps, LA isn't nearly as pedestrian friendly as parts of Philly are. Although settlements are surprisingly dense, everything seems strickly zoned residential OR commercial along certain strips.
We've spent 8 months looking at various areas along the Pacific coast, (originally because of my health issues,) trying to decide where to move, and of them, other than Portland, which is bike-friendly but not job-friendly right now- and decided on LA because of all the possible places we'd want to live that also have some transit, car sharing, and look like using the bike to get around up to 5 miles in any direction would work for trips to get groceries, etc.
It's ALSO got MANY more available jobs in my husband's field- AND there are about 5 branches of his former company there, all within a 10 mile radius of Santa Monica, that might have openings soon. What is now their Philly branch was only newly acquired 2 years ago and they bit off more than they could chew in R&D there when the economy took a dive -my husband outlasted the entire dept., including his supervisor.
Of the other areas with jobs in his field,(s) San Diego looks even HARDER to get around in for us and the hills in SF would kill me, plus the public transportation's not too great in either of those areas, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltlantz
Seeing as how L.A. is MUCH WIDER IN AREA that Philly is, unless you are living RIGHT next to your workplace. You'd better rent a car as LA traffic is legendarily bad and it's rail system is minimal compared to east coast cities. Despite remnants of and some semblance of town centers, It's real suburban in design. Think like Eastern Delaware County, Lower Montgomery County (Cheltenham, Jenkintown, Abington and surrounding areas) in Pennsylvania. Or like The Far Northeast or East Oak Lane in Philly (only with much smaller houses)
They have extensive bus service but as most will tell you, local service buses get stuck in the same traffic and I don't know how zippy their Rapid and Express services are cause I don't live there.
Simply put, until you tour the area and talk to insiders, plan on at least renting a car because it's tough to get along with out one outside Central L.A. from everything I have heard and seen.
Bottom line is that we weren't planning on moving there, or anywhere, where we couldn't find an area that fits our needs, and luckily, I DO have friends in the vicinity, abeit the OC, but they think we'll be just fine in the areas between Central LA to Santa Monica or around Hollywood. And thank god for google and bing maps, because we can SEE the street views and see what businesses and transit are close by any place we might consider moving into.
I am implying 1) The higher the income the less likely a person is to commute by any means other than a car and 2) Very few people in Southern California commute by bicycle.
"The vast majority of Southern Californians are holding tenaciously to the privacy and convenience of their own cars...a system that has mostly served low-income workers who don't have the option to drive."
Yes, I DID understand your implication. I thought it was rather ignorant, considering it's not true that EVERYONE feels the need to guzzle gas just because they can, but I'm glad you could dig up some articles to "support" your claim. I believe there was a song in the '80's you missed, though- It was by "Missing Persons"- "Walking in LA"...I believe you might've been referring to the lyric, "only a NOBODY walks in LA."
I'm sure you're aware that one can find supporting internet "evidence" for ANY argument however, yes? Just saying...
Sure we bike. Many people have bike racks on their cars to get the bikes to the good spots. I love a good bike ride, just have to transport the bike to where I want to ride though. I am just kidding here, but as many have said we prefer cars to bikes. Riding a bike for the most part is a recreational activity here and not a means of getting from point A to point B. Still many like yourselves opperate in that mode and that is perfectly acceptable if you can pull it off. We have probably a dozen employees where I work that ride most days. We also have a dozen employees that ride Mortorcycles, something that I prefer. For the majority though it seems the reason for riding a bike is financial and not because they choose that lifestyle.
I'm not sure if you came here to argue, or spam us with your anti-car stance or not .... but it sure came off that way. You asked a question, and it was answered ... VERY few people get by with JUST a bike in LA.
With that being said - LA - as a general rule - is a pretty bike friendly area. Here in Santa Monica, there are TONS of bike lanes. I think the biggest issue is how far you will be commuting. I would focus on finding a place to live that is close to your job.
Let me also add ..... its refreshing that you follow the "rules of the road" when biking. I have bad experiences almost daily with bicyclists who feel they are above the vehicle code - running stop signs, cutting off cars, etc.
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