[JohnG72]

Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda

Do you have any info on the average number of nights the units in Signature get rented?

As you know, the units aren't owned by MGM, they just manage the property for a 40/60 split + other assorted fees. Foreclosure prices are now down to $125k - $129k on some units, which seems incredibly tempting if there was even the slightest chance of them being rented a fair amount of days per month. If an investor paid cash for one of those units, do you think the income generated would be enough to offset the monthly fees (hoa, cleaning, etc)?

Here is your current problem....and I don't know how long this situation will remain.

I play very little other than poker. The most I've ever realistically run through the slots was around $400 at TI one trip, and that was because I kept winning(I was playing off the same original $60). Normally, its more like $20.

Yet even with that VERY minimal level of play, Venetian sent me a room offer for $69 weekdays(+$15 resort fee), Mandalay continually sends me offers for 1 bedroom suites at The Hotel that are around $79 a night weekdays/$150 weekends with no resort fee, and Wynn just sent me an offer for a 700 sq ft room for $89 weekdays/$179 weekends including a $50 resort credit and no resort fee.

So considering that, what in the world would be my incentive to stay at a place that has a $20($25?) resort fee, requires that I use valet, and makes me walk through the most ginormous casino of all time in order to reach the strip?

[MadManofBethesda]

Originally Posted by JohnG72

Here is your current problem....

Ummm....I don't have a current problem. You quoted a post that was over six months old and the issue is moot - at least as far as I'm concerned.

[KiwiKate]

Thanks for the very thorough update. I stayed at the Montelago in January and looked at some of the properties for sale. While I absolutely loved the area, it's very quiet and I'm looking for a home in an area that has more of a community feel. This definitely feels like a resort and I sure hope it comes back. Would highly recommend for people looking for a second home.

[Okey Dokie]

We stayed at Tremonto at LLV for January and February. It is a beautiful development, but as KiwiKate says, very quiet (except when the coyotes get going at night). Almost too quiet. My main beef is you have to drive about 5 miles (to Boulder Highway) to get to anything near resembling civilization. We will probably come back again next year, but hope to find something closer in, like maybe Green Valley or Silverado Ranch.

[LLVResident]

Kiwi, you're welcome for the update on Lake Las Vegas. As a resident I so many questions I wanted answers to and the media certainly wasn't reliable for that, so I buckled down and read 300+ pages. Like I said before, reading all that does make me hopeful for long-term viability of Lake Las Vegas. It may take a few years, but that unfortunately is just how things are everywhere right now.

LLV is quiet. But for many, that's the whole point. I was looking at some lots in Tremezzo, (just past the Loews) and was amazed at the views and quiet. I was ready to build a home there right now! Phase 2 lots atop of the Falls Course will be the same once those lots are released.

Once more homes get built there, there are also a plans for a grocery store/shopping center on land near the village, which is currently owned by 4-Corners. Don't forget, in about 2 years there will be the Galleria Parkway that will take you (without having the lights/traffic of Lake Mead Pkwy) right to the Galleria area and 515. That will shave off many minutes of travel.

There is also the often overlooked Casamar Market at the east end of the Montlago Village @ Las Vegas. (near the Marina) While it's not a full grocery store, they have just about everything you do need. Last time I was there I saw cookbooks,a Viking Standmixer, plus liquor, wine, milk, cheese crackers, sundries etc. Just about everything except a meat counter.

I'm still hearing rumors today from people in the hotel industry that there is some interest in the Ritz/Casino properties. No names were mentioned, but I would hope a more family friendly/moderate priced hotel/casino will snap it up cheap and rebrand it just in time for the busy season. My vote is for a Lucky Strike Bowling Alley with a game room(wii friendly)/casino to replace the Montelago Casino. Of course, I already emailed Lucky Strike (based in CA) about the available location in Lake Las Vegas.

[olecapt]

Be a little cautious. While you are, and rightly, a strong exponent of LLV times are changing.

I would be very skeptical of the road to the Galleria. You don't have the needed roof tops. Until you get them...no road. That is how it works. Same with the Supermarket. You need to double or triple the rooftops before you will get a supermarket in there.

I am rooting for you and it will eventually happen. But I think more than 5 years ...

[LLVResident]

Olecapt, I meant to say that the Galleria road would actually not be considered for at least 2 years per the agreement in the bankrtupcty plan for various reasons. It could take longer. However, I read in a blog somewhere that the road is partially constructed (under a different name, I think Pabco Rd) and you can see it on Google earth maps. I agree, there would not be a supermarket until you get enough homes to support it. Casamar Market in the village is a great alternative.

My main goal here is not to sugar coat LLV. It is to simply provide the black/white information from the Chapter 11 bankruptcy plan which looks encouraging for the long-term viability of LLV. The media provides inaccurate /biased/slanted information/ and the comments in the LVSun are not factual and pretty cruel. LLV will change and adapt to the changing times. (ie a park instead of a golf course etc)

[LLVResident]

Oh.. and Olecapt.. thanks for your rooting.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by LLVResident

Oh.. and Olecapt.. thanks for your rooting.

Hey I still think it gorgous on the hills.

I have every confindence LLV will survive and prosper.

The question is when.

As a destination resort? Never...

As an upper, or middle class suburb of LV/Henderson...yup.

I even believe the hotel will be back...and quickly..and the casino in time.

The only thing I have trouble with is the condo hotels. They are going to survive on the strip at a vastly reduced value...But I don't think LLV has any place near that value. So I would not be surprised to see those die. (To be reincarnated as something else)

[LLVResident]

OleCapt

I agree that LLV will adapt to be more of a middle to upper class suburb with a smaller percentage of 2nd home residences. There are still those tourists who prefer the quiet of LLV over the strip, so those will still want to vacation in Lake Las Vegas. Plus, once the golf courses are re-opened, you'll have the golfing guests staying there. The Loews has done a great job capitalizing on the lake, family, allowing pets, boating, Lake Mead etc. (you can park your boats in their parking lot) Their occupancy is up this year. I beleive they "get it" and it shows. There have reports that the Loews filed bankruptcy last year, but it is my understanding it was the owner of the building who couldn't make the payments, not the Loews themselves. I haven't fully researched this, but I think the Loews just manages and doesn't own the actual building.

I own a hotel-condo in Viera. I bought in September '09 fairy cheap. Most of the ownerships have turned over at the lower prices. If you haven't been in one, they are a great alternative to a small hotel room. Full kitchens, nicely decorated. You feel like you're at home verses a hotel. They are well capitalized by the condo owners and not as dependent on the tourists. While I enjoy the revenue from the rental, I would have bought the condo without that feature. If LLV turns more suburb than tourist destination, you will probably find more owners simply renting them out to tenants on a longer term basis. I don't see how they can just die as the are individually owned as any normal condo and the HOA is very strong.

The hotel condos on the strip are similar in concept but pretty different than Lake Las Vegas. Most of the strip hotel condos are just hotel rooms you can buy. Most don't have kitchens and are around 300 sq feet. My 1 bedroom Viera is 700 sq feet. You could easily live there 100% of the time. A larger strip hotel condo with kitchen etc are pretty spendy and I don't see how an owner could offset the high price with rental revenue.

The strip condo hotels also require that all owners participate in the rental pool and also limit the owner's use. The Lake Las Vegas condo hotels have no such requirements. You don't have to be in the program as an owner and no limits if you are in the program. During my visit, I can request ala carte services including maid services, cleaning and maintenance/repairs by on site staff. At reasonable prices. As I mentioned before, all utilities are included in the HOA dues, so Viera and Luna are truly turn-key and no worry 2nd home ownership.

Do all suburbs need a casino? Who knows? Maybe an upscale bowling alley, movie theatre? But once more houses are built, the village will likely end up being a retail hub and activities for just the LLV residents and less dependent on tourists and those not from LLV. The village is great benefit to those in the hotel condo as you can simply walk to restaurants, bars and services and also close by for the community residents. It appears that the village concept is becoming popular. In the future, with more residents it would be nice to have a french bakery, a Gap or similar type clothing store etc... and more mainstream services, other than fancy dresses, dolls and a psychic.

Again, Olecapt, I appreciate your positive comments/feedback. I hope this information helps potential buyers and answers some questions for others.