[JustMike77]

I go to Vegas a couple times a year, mostly to visit my sister in Henderson. I always stay at the Mirage because I know where everything is and it's close to a lot of stuff. If you have an MLife membership, parking is still free. The one that gets me is resort fees in the WINTER. I had to fly in to a funeral so I stayed at the Green Valley Ranch Resort. It was December and colder than a witch's t*t. They charged a $35 daily resort fee to use the POOL. Otherwise, I always seem to have to pay for parking on vacation. I stayed in DC for a week at the Sofitel and had a car for a few days so I could visit the Annapolis Boat Show. They charged $ 46 per night for parking.

[Vic Romano]

Originally Posted by clutchcargo777

I've always said this. It's called budgeting. I have X dollars to spend on Y. Period. If we go out for dinner and a show, we budget for drinks, maybe a few quarters for gambling (I don't, she does a little) and tips.

Charge me $15 to park? Well we then spend $15 less on something else. We budgeted $250 for the night that is all we are going to spend. If we have to cut back on fun because they wanted to charge us for peeing, then we won't come back. We are prepared to pay $250 for $250 worth of fun. If we get anything less, we move on.

Nickle and dimeing does not work with us and I doubt it works with too many others.

All the extra fees are annoying so I'm staying and eating at places off strip/downtown. There are plenty of places where the fees aren't charged and plenty of good restaurants.

[Clarkcty]

Well when you have a town who tries to screw people and charge for everything, people will wise up. Oh our New Years Eve
SMOKE show was lousy by the way. We have a corrupt LVCVA hiring the same company over and over again to shoot SMOKE up in the air instead of fireworks. Just look at other cities and countries around the world and how they have their fireworks, magnificent. Tourists get charge so much during the holidays and get jacked in return.

[BBMW]

Yeah, but they have a big rock to keep pushing up hill, and need a lot of tourists to keep pushing it. They have a lot of capacity to keep full, and, while not as much as at the start of the financial crisis, they still have a lot of debt to carry. This is a bad setup to survive a prolonged downturn. The capacity has a leveraging effect. It great if you can keep it full, it'll drag you down like an anchor if not.

It would make a lot of sense for the two big operators to sell some properties, especially if they want to concentrate on higher end customers, and not have to churn lower end customers through the older, shabbier properties. It's the latter who'll walk away from the nickle and dime charges.

Originally Posted by Willy702

Isn't this kind of the definition of any business? They make money when times are good and plan their businesses to survive if things turn south?

I think the occupancy may drop slightly going forward, but if room rates are 10% higher then a casino may not mind losing 1-2% occupancy. My view is that demand has peaked in absolute numbers for the time being. New flights help overcome some market fatigue, but frankly without a new resort or reason to come to Vegas total demand won't increase. I doubt Park Hotel will make much of a difference. Maybe once the Raiders stadium opens, Wynn's Paradise is done and then Resorts World & Project Blue can all serve as the next leg up in demand.

[kttam186290]

When I was growing up in the 1990s around Los Angeles, you'd hear some of the young 20-somethings (at that time) talk about getting in their cars and driving up to Las Vegas at the spur-of-the-moment.

It would be 9:00 or 10:00 at night on a Saturday and tons of 20-somethings would pack into cars like sardines and go whistling up the Cajon Pass and trek across the desert to Nevada.

They'd bring enough money to play a few games, spin a few reels, and eat some buffet chow the next morning before slogging back home. Some would stay up all night and others would get cheap rooms at places like the Riviera or Westward Ho.

I remember those days....

That, for the most part, doesn't happen much anymore.

California 20-somethings -- by and large -- just stay in California now. They've got casinos all over the Inland Empire/Palm Springs area and San Diego, which are just an hour's drive from L.A. that offer all of the amenities of Vegas without all of the hassles:

-- resort fees
-- parking fees
-- high liquor taxes
-- high sales taxes on the Strip
-- expensive buffet food (it all comes from the same packing plants!)

You can get a steak and all-you-can-eat Maine lobster dinner buffet at any of the casinos in Southern California (Morongo, Pechanga, Valley View) for just $30. There are no parking fees, no resort fees and you have all of the shopping/entertainment amenities of being near large metro areas (San Diego, LA, Palm Springs, etc).

If Vegas wants to survive, it's going to have make some serious decisions.

[Prosze]

Originally Posted by kttam186290

When I was growing up in the 1990s around Los Angeles, you'd here some of the young 20-somethings (at that time) talk about getting in their cars and driving up to Las Vegas at the spur-of-the-moment.

It would be 9:00 or 10:00 at night on a Saturday and tons of 20-somethings would pack into cars like sardines and go whistling up the Cajon Pass and trek across the desert to Nevada.

They'd bring enough money to play a few games, spin a few reels, and eat some buffet chow the next morning before slogging back home. Some would stay up all night and others would get cheap rooms at places like the Riviera or Westward Ho.

I remember those days....

That, for the most part, doesn't happen much anymore.

California 20-somethings -- by and large -- just stay in California now. They've got casinos all over the Inland Empire/Palm Springs area and San Diego, which are just an hour's drive from L.A. that offer all of the amenities of Vegas without all of the hassles:

-- resort fees
-- parking fees
-- high liquor taxes
-- high sales taxes on the Strip
-- expensive buffet food (it all comes from the same packing plants!)

You can get a steak and all-you-can-eat Maine lobster dinner buffet at any of the casinos in Southern California (Morongo, Pechanga, Valley View) for just $30. There are no parking fees, no resort fees and you have all of the shopping/entertainment amenities of being near large metro areas (San Diego, LA, Palm Springs, etc).

If Vegas wants to survive, it's going to have make some serious decisions.

What entertainment do those casinos have? Good nightclubs, restaurants, shows, shopping etc? Your post makes it seems like the Vegas strip is struggling. A lot of the complaints in this thread are from cheap locals with no money to spend.

[EA]

it is true that I don't go spend a bunch of money at the strip. Never have. never will.
But I talk to people, on an hourly basis, that came to vegas for vacation and are turned off by the hidden fees and extra fees.

[kttam186290]

Originally Posted by Dltordj

What entertainment do those casinos have? Good nightclubs, restaurants, shows, shopping etc? Your post makes it seems like the Vegas strip is struggling. A lot of the complaints in this thread are from cheap locals with no money to spend.

All of the above, actually. And, if those venues aren't to their liking....these patrons simply step out of the casinos and get what they want locally, without the excruciating 4-6 hour drive up the 15. If I don't find the crowd at Morongo to my liking, I simply leave and go to downtown Palm Springs where I can tour art galleries in an open-air environment.

Furthermore, the mindset of Millennials and post-Millennials is vastly different from that of their parents and grandparents.

They are more socially conscious and want to see their money (taxes and fees) spent where they can actually witness the benefits of it and experience it themselves.

Financially, it's going to be an uphill battle for Vegas, to be sure. It will be up to political leaders in the city of Las Vegas, Clark County and Nevada to be creative and make some changes.

If nothing happens, and no changes are made, Las Vegas will end up looking as sad as Reno.

[kttam186290]

Originally Posted by Vic Romano

All the extra fees are annoying so I'm staying and eating at places off strip/downtown. There are plenty of places where the fees aren't charged and plenty of good restaurants.

But why drive the 4-6 hours up to Las Vegas when you can drive 30 minutes to Temecula or Banning? ....Or an hour to Palm Springs or San Diego?

What's the benefit, anymore?

Do you see my side of the argument?

[kttam186290]

Originally Posted by EA

it is true that I don't go spend a bunch of money at the strip. Never have. never will.
But I talk to people, on an hourly basis, that came to vegas for vacation and are turned off by the hidden fees and extra fees.

Exactly!

Please tell me why I -- a prospective tourist to Las Vegas -- should have to pay extra fees and taxes so you guys can have a Raiders stadium??? ....because you don't want to pay for the stadium yourselves and want to pass the buck on to tourists?

God forbid you actually reach into your own pockets to pay for something you want, instead of picking the pockets of the tourists.

People have caught onto this. It was widely advertised in the R-J and the LV Sun that you guys didn't want to pay for your own stadium, but wanted the rest of us to.

People in my generation (25-35 year olds) read that and we interpret it as tacky and gauche. We would rather spend our money on things that are going to benefit us locally where we live.

A lot of people think along the lines of: "...what the heck do I care about a Raiders stadium and why should my room fees go up to pay for the damned thing?"