[MediocreButArrogant]

You asked this same question four months ago and the first person who responded gave you the answer.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by 08grad

My softener does not fix the hard water issue.

You will need a whole house filtration system out here if you want your entire house free of hard water.

no, No, NO.

Hardness minerals are dissolved solids. They are dissolved. like adding a teaspoon of salt to a glass of water & stirring it until it is dissolved.

Filters are good at removing undissolved sediment. Many filters work at the 5 micron level; they effectively remove all sediment.

Filters do NOT remove dissolved solids. A whole-house filtration system will not remove hard water minerals.

Hardness minerals found in our water are mostly the result of dissolved calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate usually dissolves in exposed water (exposed to air -- specifically to carbon dioxide) as follows:

CaCO3 (s) + CO2 (aq) + H2O (l) ⇋ Ca2+ (aq) + 2HCO3− (aq)


A filter is no good at removing the calcium cations or the carbonate anions as they are too tiny. So, instead, you use a salt based water softener. This type of water softener is called an "ion exchange" machine because ions of calcium are "exchanged" for ions of sodium (table salt, NaCL or sodium chloride) or potassium (if you decide to use potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride). Those calcium ions get flushed down the drain during the recharge cycle.

[SportyandMisty]

Here are the components of a salt based, ion-exchange water softener:

* Valve (contains a programmable microcontroller)
* Resin tank - a big tall empty cylinder
* Cation exchange resin. This goes into the empty resin tank.
* Brine tank -- a plastic tank into which you put salt, typically purchased at a place like Costco or Home Depot in 50 pound bags.
* Some parts to hook everything together - tubes, connectors, a brine tank float, etc.

Step 1: Determine if you have a water softener loop somewhere - usually in the garage but maybe in the pantry of a condo.

Step 2: Determine the pipe diameter of the water softener loop. It might be 3/4", 1", 1.25" or 1.5" usually copper.

Step 3: When you decide which water softener to buy, its valve body should accept flex tubing within 1/4" of whatever you have in your garage. I have 1.5" copper tubing, so the valve body I needed to get was either 1.25", 1.5" or 1.75". I got 1.25".

Step 4: Determine how much capacity you need. For example, if you have 2 people with no pets, you will need less capacity than, say, a family with 2 adults & 5 kids & 4 dogs & 2 cats. Capacity refers to the quantity of cation exchange resin you put into the resin tank. I have 1.5 cubic feet, which if memory serves, is about 80,000 grains of hardness capacity.

Step 5: Assemble it all, and program it. In the programming phase (you only do this once), you enter how much resin capacity, what kind of a safety factor you want, what time of night you want the system to regenerate, etc.

Step 6: Attach it to the water softener loop, typically using flex pipe of the correct diameter and a couple of fittings.

A word on capacity: this is about efficiency. Let's say you order a system with a 30,000 grain capacity (not much) and install it. You might discover it regenerates every night or every other night. Each regeneration cycle takes about an hour and a half and it uses a fair bit of water in the process. In this case, by regenerating every night or two based on actual consumption, you chose too small a system. You will run through a lot of salt.

Instead, say you bought a system with 96,000 grains of capacity (quite a bit for a residence). It will regenerate only once every 2 weeks. You may have purchased larger than your needs -- that is, you could have spent less money on a system that contained, say, 60K or 72K or 80K capacity that would have been fine.

For my last few houses, I've just assembled the systems myself from parts readily available on the internet. You can purchase entire kits that will arrive at your front door unassembled. Assembly is straight forward if you are at all handy.

For Las Vegas area, get a system with 48K to 72K of capacity for a family of 4. In an area with less-hard water, you can get less capacity, but here I wouldn't go below 48K grains of hardness capacity.

Here is a reasonable system. http://www.aquascience.net/fleck-64-...-steel-by-pass

[08grad]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

no, No, NO.

Hardness minerals are dissolved solids. They are dissolved. like adding a teaspoon of salt to a glass of water & stirring it until it is dissolved.

Filters are good at removing undissolved sediment. Many filters work at the 5 micron level; they effectively remove all sediment.

Filters do NOT remove dissolved solids. A whole-house filtration system will not remove hard water minerals.

Hardness minerals found in our water are mostly the result of dissolved calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate usually dissolves in exposed water (exposed to air -- specifically to carbon dioxide) as follows:

CaCO3 (s) + CO2 (aq) + H2O (l) ⇋ Ca2+ (aq) + 2HCO3− (aq)


A filter is no good at removing the calcium cations or the carbonate anions as they are too tiny. So, instead, you use a salt based water softener. This type of water softener is called an "ion exchange" machine because ions of calcium are "exchanged" for ions of sodium (table salt, NaCL or sodium chloride) or potassium (if you decide to use potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride). Those calcium ions get flushed down the drain during the recharge cycle.

My water issue was due to chlorine and hydrogen sulfide causing a rotten egg smell when using hot water.

I already had a water softener installed and replaced the water heater anode rod thinking that might be the cause. Neither fixed it.

When I installed the sediment filter, the smell was gone.

[Danknee]

Originally Posted by Ramboman55

Im looking to purchase either a whirlpool water softener from Lowes or a GE water softener from Home Depot. In general which is better to buy in the 400 dollar range? Anyone have either companies in use for awhile ? any problems or comments? Thanks!

Originally Posted by MediocreButArrogant

You asked this same question four months ago and the first person who responded gave you the answer.

Originally Posted by Ramboman55

Can someone recommend a good water softener for my house in Henderson? My house is not even a year old yet. Im not asking about a drinking water system. Im hoping to stay under $500. Thanks for any information everyone.

Originally Posted by Danknee

Fleck valve, the rest of the parts are generic and don't matter. You can buy them at a dozen websites, shop around and buy where it is cheapest. Do you have a loop plumbed already? I bought online and installed myself. Pretty simple install and still working great 5 years in.

We must go deeper.

[AmericaWestCMH]

Ditto what someone else said. Get a system built around a Fleck or Clack valve (I have a Clack WS-1), they are bulletproof.

[Packrat1]

If you do use the 50 lb bags of salt pellets I have an alternative.

We use the 50 lb straight Morton salt blocks from IFA stores and they run about $6.50 ea. The reason we use them is that they last longer and also don't sludge up the bottom of the barrel like the pellets do.

I have used these for a number of years and they really do seem to work better at least for me.

[jack1231]

Can you just get a large reverse osmosis system connected to the water softener loop so that all the water in the house is filtered of minerals that cause hard water as well as other contaminates that make the water taste bad all without adding sodium to the water?

[LVAllen]

Originally Posted by jack1231

Can you just get a large reverse osmosis system connected to the water softener loop so that all the water in the house is filtered of minerals that cause hard water as well as other contaminates that make the water taste bad all without adding sodium to the water?

Sure. If you don't like water pressure. The filtration rate of even the largest ROs are far, far below the pressure requirements of an average house. The only way it works is by also installing a 300-500 gallon holding tank, and a pump to pressurize the water back up to house standards. But that means your cold water will always be the ambient temperature of wherever your holding tank is. Can it be done? Of course. One poster here has discussed his whole house RO setup a ton of times, and if i ever find myself with $5-6k of unallocated income, I may very well go that route.

[jack1231]

OK, so the best setup would be R/O under the kitchen sink for cooking and drinking water and whole house salt-based water softener in the garage for sink faucets, showers, toilets, dishwasher, washing machine etc.?