[BBMW]

Eh, I think your overstating your points.

Originally Posted by fortwaynebandit

With deference,OP, I think that you are viewing Las Vegas for something that it is not , nor that it can ever be.
Im a native Nevadan (I live out of state for now due to the poor economic conditions there) and I have lived in Las Vegas and Reno, so I'm speaking from a position of knowledge when I state that:

1. Las Vegas has an intractable water problem - The water sustain the city in the future simply does not exist. Los Angeles, San Diego and Phoenix are all larger cities and keeping them "wet" will always be a higher priority than sustaining Las Vegas is or ever will be
   
   

1. Las Vegas is, and should continue, to upgrade it's water efficiency. They should also put Harry Reid's feet to the fire to use his control of the senate to get NV a larger chunk of the Colorado River supply.
   

   Las Vegas is on the losing end of the gambling boom - While it's still a "destination" for many, gambling is in all 50 states now meaning that Las vegas, in general and Nevada as a whole is losing its stranglehold on the market. Since Internet gaming is the future and it doesn't require traveling to Las Vegas to undertake it, there's simply no room for Las Vegas' largest industry to grow.

   Las vegas has a major homeless problem - It has had decades to deal with it and it has simply ignored it. With the gentrification of the downtown by Tony Hsieh, this problem is going get far worse before it gets better.

   This has been proven false. As gaming across the US expanded, gaming revenue in LV rose. Local gaming just whets peoples appetite for destination gaming.
   

   Las Vegas has definitely been overbuilt There will never be a time when all of the homes and businesses in the valley will ever be filled again as the water and the economic problems preclude this from occurring. Vast tracts of empty housing are going blight Las Vegas until they are either demolished ( leaving open that existed beforehand) or sold to imported residents at discounted prices (thus lowering tax rates)
   

   The only reason that not all the home are occupied, is that the state put in too many obstacles to getting the houses on non-performing mortgages foreclosed and resold. If these were removed, the houses would end up back on the market, resold and reoccupied.
   

   
   

   It has a a corrupt local government - There is little interest in reforming Las Vegas' city covernment or that of Clark County for that matter. Electing Goodman was a sign that the people of the city don't take their political future seriously
   
   

   This is no worse here than any other major city
   

   
   

   Its lack of ability (or apparently interest) in bringing in new industry to the city - People have been talking "high tech" in Las Vegas since the 1960s. 50 years later they are still talking the same thing , with only modest success. The university system hasn't changed to meet the needs of that type of economy; neither has the elementary school system

Amazon, Zappos, SuperNAP 8. They're making a start.

Frankly, the water problems and the problems with gaming/tourism cannot be resolved and will both be enough to doom the city. Climate change means that the current drought is going to make the area uninhabitable by a sizable population within the next 25-50 years. Gaming is going online and the influx of foreign tourists ( the only ones who have money to lose) now have Macau and other destinations closer to home to make things more comfortable for them than 8-12 hours flights to Las Vegas for gambling junkets.

Like playing chicken little?

People who have left Nevada have seen this and they have decided that they should try their luck (no gambling pun intended) elsewhere. That they are complaining about Las Vegas is an indication (at least to me) that they invested a great deal into the city and they came up empty after they did. It's disappointment and depression rather envy or immaturity.

While I consider Nevada to be my home, I'm also realistic about its prospects. It started as a desert state with a small population and that's probably what it's join to return to in the future. That's not "hating on" Nevada; that's seeing the future without engaging in nostalgia.

People have been saying this for years. It hasn't worked out that way.

[fortwaynebandit]

Originally Posted by Zepheyr

I highly doubt Las Vegas will be allowed to run out of water.

I can tell you right now, as someone who works in a casino, online gambling is most definitely not "the future." Playing on a computer in your house is much different than gaming in a casino, with all the other gamblers, the bright lights and sounds, and the whole active and engaging atmosphere that people love about a casino. Only certain kinds of people will play exclusively at home. If the casino industry isn't booming, tell that to my company that just opened another dealer school and is hiring an extra 100 staff, and also to the new casino going up next door.

Really?

Soooo.. the Fontainebleau is going to magically finish itself? Oh wait…it's getting torn down,isn't it?

Fontainebleau Resort Las Vegas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about Echelon Vegas?
How's that going?



And since other states and various Indian casinos throughout the US are either looking to expand (thus stealing Vegas' market) or like Foxwoods losing money, the gambling market is booming,where again? Besides Macau, aka Steve Wynn's fallback position.

Also building a casino is never sign of a "booming" gaming industry. If it were, then the Riviera would have been booming while Echelon and Fontainebleau were being constructed, wouldn't it? As would the Stratosphere which has teetered on bankruptcy for almost two decades.

Sorry…but since I would like to return to Nevada , I keep very close tabs on what happens at home. I also come back at least twice a year. With few exceptions, I see a town that is barely hanging on and I see the same dozens of shuttered businesses and vacant homes that I did 3-4 years ago.

When things get better, then I'll come back. However, I simply don't see that occurring.

[BBMW]

You do know that Genting, out of Malaysia bought Eschelon, and is reworking and finishing it, correct?

Resorts World Las Vegas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by fortwaynebandit

Really?

How about Echelon Vegas?
How's that going?

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by BBMW

You do know that Genting, out of Malaysia bought Eschelon, and is reworking and finishing it, correct?

Resorts World Las Vegas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll believe it when I see massive construction crews swarming the build site. Icahn bought Fountainebleu five years ago and we all thought that was going to be finished as well. Turned out he just wanted the land.

[SoHoVe]

Originally Posted by UTES

Las Vegas is a great city (and area). However, like New York or Los Angeles, the locals will tell you it's also a tough city. It'll eat the lunch of those who are weak, vulnerable or unprepared. Undue expectations don't help either.

The vast majority of complaints about Las Vegas can be pegged to most big cities. But, it's like the whiners don't consider other cities have problems too. They act like issues such as the homeless, graffiti, housing and job issues occur only in Las Vegas. And, want to talk water issues? Heck, that's pretty much a standard for many areas of the West.

Bill

I agree with this 100%.

FORTWAYNEBANDIT, I'm curious what you took from my original post that lead you to believe I
am unrealistic regarding Las Vegas??? I basically stated its problems are like those of many other major cites.
Yes, the gaming industry being the driving force of the economy unusual but its not uncommon for major cites to heavily depned on one sector. In Houston it is energy. When that crashed back in the 80's property values plummeted, formerly nice areas went to hell and people fled in droves. Fast forward to 2014 and its now one of of the top performing cities and. It has been for awhile.
Las Vegas is coming back...slowly. I NEVER thought for one second Las Vegas was paradise even during the best of economic times. I have never recommended it for its culture or good schools because better can be found elsewhere no question in my mind, but to claim it is a cesspool (as some do) is entirely untrue. I don't think Vegas is going to be back to what it was before the crash anytime soon...I didn't get the impression the people have spoken to here do either.
In every case they just want to be able to secure a decent job and have reasonably comfortable middle class lives there. I miss the conviences of living in a 24 hr town, having 3 sushi places within 3 miles of my house (along with basically everything else I need on a regular basis). We shall see...the people I've come across who want to return are all educated professionals so that might make a difference in their outlook but then again these are people who choose to live anywhere and yet they still want to return. I don't think anyone is asking for the sky here.

[BBMW]

I don't think he ever said he was moving forward to complete it. Genting has said they are. Although I agree, that I'll believe it when someone actually sees them pouring concreate.

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

I'll believe it when I see massive construction crews swarming the build site. Icahn bought Fountainebleu five years ago and we all thought that was going to be finished as well. Turned out he just wanted the land.

[Raiderman]

All I know is, after living in over 10 states, this feels like home. I couldn't fathom living in Indiana or anywhere else in the Midwest again, but that's just my preference. As I've said before, the great thing about this country is that there is somewhere for just about everyone.

[lvoc]

The water issue is a bit dull. Las Vegas has sufficient water to grow some yet. It cannot double but it can add another 20% or more. Upstate supply would be more to up it another 50%. I believe Vegas must go for the upstate at some level. Otherwise the opportunity is gone forever.

The crucial thing is Las Vegas is above the dam. All the other significant users are below it. As soon as they get the third straw (One of the few screwups by Pat Mulroy...the second straw should have been done as the third straw is).

The fiction that Reid can control this is simply fiction. It is far beyond the capability of any political figure. I don't believe that the feds, even if they agreed, would be able to change to compact without a law suit that would run on for fifty years.

Some day CA desalinization may relieve the pressure. But that is decades away. Note the difficulty CA has solving its own water problems.

On balance much of CA is in worse trouble than southern NV. Just does not get as big a play.

[BBMW]

Originally Posted by lvoc

The water issue is a bit dull. Las Vegas has sufficient water to grow some yet. It cannot double but it can add another 20% or more. Upstate supply would be more to up it another 50%. I believe Vegas must go for the upstate at some level. Otherwise the opportunity is gone forever.

The crucial thing is Las Vegas is above the dam. All the other significant users are below it. As soon as they get the third straw (One of the few screwups by Pat Mulroy...the second straw should have been done as the third straw is).

The fiction that Reid can control this is simply fiction. It is far beyond the capability of any political figure. I don't believe that the feds, even if they agreed, would be able to change to compact without a law suit that would run on for fifty years.

We went through this before. It's a federal law, just like any other law, Congress can change it at will. After some digging, that was confirmed.

Could Harry get done. It would be tough. He'd have to do a lot of wheeling and dealing with other states Senate and House delegations. I think he'd basically have to gang up all the other Colorado river water users to take a chunk out of CA's allotment and distribute it among themselves.

Some day CA desalinization may relieve the pressure. But that is decades away. Note the difficulty CA has solving its own water problems.

On balance much of CA is in worse trouble than southern NV. Just does not get as big a play.

[lvoc]

Originally Posted by BBMW

We went through this before. It's a federal law, just like any other law, Congress can change it at will. After some digging, that was confirmed.

Could Harry get done. It would be tough. He'd have to do a lot of wheeling and dealing with other states Senate and House delegations. I think he'd basically have to gang up all the other Colorado river water users to take a chunk out of CA's allotment and distribute it among themselves.

Again - No way. Harry might work some deal in the Senate by CA kills him in the house. And it is not clear that any significant changes would not result in long term court battles of unknowable outcome.

A good summary of the area...

“A Smashing Victory”? Was Arizona v. California a Victory for the State of Arizona? | The Arizona Journal of Environmental Law & Policy- The University of Arizona