It's between KC and Cincinnati. Convince me! (Kansas City, Center: apartment, lease)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
While Kansas City has its barbecue identity, I think you'll be able to find just about any food you want. The question is how many restaurants will survive. My favorite Italian place is on thin ice. Another place I like has reduced its operations to four hours a day, just three days a week.
If you're in the creative arts, keep in mind Kansas City is home to Hallmark. Kansas City also has a number of advertising agencies. I work at a TV station, and it always seems like we need a digital producer.
For environmental jobs, Kansas City has a large EPA regional office, but hiring can be a slow process.
I've never been to Cincinnati, so I cannot offer a comparison.
KC_Retiree should have already dispelled the idea that the only things this city has going for it are low COL and BBQ.
I would agree that what the city itself has to offer should matter more than what's around it, but what KC has to offer is far more than what your comments suggest you believe it does.
Cincinnati has museums, I know, but few art museums in the country match the Nelson-Atkins in quality or extent of collections. Its collection of Asian art is one of the finest in the country, and the more recent Henry Bloch Wing attached to the original museum's east end gives it room to show its more recent collections of African and contemporary art. (That last is a very recent addition to the museum, as William Rockhill Nelson forbade the use of his endowment to purchase works of art by anyone not dead for at least 25 years. Mary Atkins' bequest IIRC contains no such stricture, and Henry Bloch actually admires contemporary works and helped acquire many of the notable sculptures that dot the museum's south lawn.) And if you aren't satisfied with the modern art on display at the Nelson-Atkins — which is free to attend, btw, except for special exhibitions — then the Kemper Museum of Contemporary Art, the first and largest modern art museum in Missouri, is just a few blocks to the west on Warwick Boulevard, on the other side of the Kansas City Art Instititute from the Nelson-Atkins.
Cincinnati has a lovely Art Deco Union Station that was recently restored. Kansas City's 1914 Union Station got restored a few years back, and that restoration added a science museum to it as well as a very nice restaurant and an IMAX theater (which may not have reopened yet).
The National World War I Memorial and Museum sits across Pershing Road from Union Station, and just to its east is Crown Center, the live/work/shop/play complex surrounding Hallmark Cards headquarters. When it went up in the 1970s, it was the largest privately financed urban renewal project since Rockefeller Center in New York. (Another New York parallel: When it opened in 1931, the Nelson-Atkins had a bigger endowment than any other museum in the United States save one: New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art.)
And I'm sure Cincinnati has nothing like the Country Club Plaza, the nation's oldest planned shopping center. It's not a mall: its shops and offices are arrayed along city streets, and its buildings are Moorish Revival in architecture.
KC BBQ really is all that, but BBQ is not all that the city has to offer in terms of cuisine. I had a very good meal at a Vietnamese restaurant in the City Market on my last trip Back Home two years ago, and you can find several other global cuisines represented in the local constellation of restaurants. You might want to search the Kansas City Star archives for the "Chow Town" column, which reports news of comings and goings on the local restaurant scene. (Oh, and speaking of local cuisine: I did try Cincinnati-style chili when someone opened a Gold Star Chili franchise on Philadelphia's South Street about 15 or so years ago. It's definitely unique — and definitely an acquired taste. Like Philadelphia cheesesteaks, Cincy chili doesn't travel well; unlike the cheesesteaks, however, it seems no one outside a roughly 200-mile radius of Cincinnati tries their hand at this deconstructed dish.
(Speaking of Philadelphia cheesesteaks, though, one of the few places outside Philly that gets them right is Grinders in the Crossroads Arts District. Their menu boasts that their cheesesteak was "Voted Best Cheesesteak West of the Mississippi," and after eating one, I believe them.)
When it reopens, the Kaufman Center for the Performing Arts is also a must-see (and -experience) venue. You might want to pair it with a First Friday gallery crawl in the Crossroads, in the middle of which it sits.
KC_Retiree already gave you the skinny on Swope Park's amenities and outdoor recreation in the surrounding region, but they left Cliff Drive off the list. This road that hugs the bluff overlooking the Missouri River floodplain on the city's northeast side is the only official state scenic byway in Missouri that's located in an urban area, and on Saturdays, it's closed to auto traffic, which means you can jog and bike along it to your heart's content.
There's more I could list, but I think I'll stop here. (Oh, but I will add this: if you're vegan, you will find that you're swimming against the current in this historic cowtown, but I think there are restaurants there that have fare you can eat. One of them is even a BBQ joint; its owner has a pretty good sense of humor, though, and plays into the meat-centrism in marking them.)
Oh wow, thank you so much for taking the time to write all this! This is the kind of local's insight I think I was missing in my research and I will come back to reference it. Bonus points for the little history lesson on Country Club Plaza! That's pretty cool.
When we were there in Oct, we explored Cincy's Union Station; we're suckers for art deco and love that Cincy has a lot of it. In KC, we walked around the Nelson-Atkins (learned a lot about those sculptures in Art History class, so it was cool to see in person!) but didn't go in. I would definitely like to check out your museums.
Thanks for the publication recommendation. I will definitely use that to get a feel for the kind of food to expect. I really don't think it's all BBQ but I've been kind of spoiled in the Ann Arbor area in terms of plant-based options -- not that we eat out very much but it's nice to not have to think too hard about food. The bf will enjoy KC's cuisine I'm sure. And haha, he still hasn't tried Skyline Chili, he thinks it looks gross! Don't think either of us are missing out there. I'm guessing it's one of those things mainly enjoyed by people who grew up in Cincinnati metro.
You are helping me feel a little better about the park situation. All I really want is to be able to walk outside with my dog and be in a pleasant looking neighborhood with a park nearby. Rivers are nice to explore when I wanna get more into nature. I'm used to that here in MI. The scenic byway sounds amazing! I haven't seen anything about that yet!
While Kansas City has its barbecue identity, I think you'll be able to find just about any food you want. The question is how many restaurants will survive. My favorite Italian place is on thin ice. Another place I like has reduced its operations to four hours a day, just three days a week.
If you're in the creative arts, keep in mind Kansas City is home to Hallmark. Kansas City also has a number of advertising agencies. I work at a TV station, and it always seems like we need a digital producer.
For environmental jobs, Kansas City has a large EPA regional office, but hiring can be a slow process.
I've never been to Cincinnati, so I cannot offer a comparison.
Noted.
I really appreciate you responding about the job market. I'll look into Hallmark and ad agencies for sure!
I would not play down the recreational opportunities around KC like some here have. I'm a huge outdoor enthusiast and I would not be moving to KC if it wasn't for some great opportunities. The Ozarks are a couple of hours away and there is much to do there. My favorite activity is kayaking and I love the variety of spring fed rivers available. Colorado is a 9 hour drive; a bit long for a weekend but I made several 3 day weekend ski trips in my youth. There's even a small ski area north of town that is not that bad, considering the lack of any nearby mountains, if it's cold enough to produce snow. The one thing KC lacks, unless you live in the burbs, are good long cycling trails. There are mountain biking trails in Swope Park and a few extensive cycling trails but they are mostly in the burbs and on the Kansas side. Not sure how Cincinnati fares in that regard.
There's a lot to do culturally in KC as well. I'll never tire of the Nelson, the restaurant scene is great (and not just BBQ), although I am not sure how it will look post CV19, and plenty of other things to do (Starlight, fantastic zoo, and Penn Valley Park and the WWII memorial/museum is a great place to spend time). I'm sure Cincinnati has their version of all those things as well but I've only been through that area once.
Living in Houston presently (where going anywhere is a huge hassle all the time), the one thing I love about KC is the lack of hassle. The downtown area is easy to reach from most points in the metro and there is plenty of parking when there. The streetcar downtown makes north south travel from Crown Center and Union Station into downtown and the River Market very easy. There's some congestion, particularly along I-435 in south KC and Johnson County but the traffic is much better than in most major metros in the US.
Yeah, I've heard getting around is pretty much a breeze in KC, which is nice. I'll come back to reference your reply! Thanks for explaining the outdoor options - I was getting a little worried that it might be a bummer when we get there. I'm not a huge outdoorsy person; I'm mostly content with pretty things to look at and going for nice walks. I'm really interested in seeing the Ozarks sometime though!
It's really starting to seem like we can't go wrong either way. We might just have to let job offers choose which city for us.
I generally agree with most posts on here. I think KC and Cinci are pretty comparable, on the whole.
One aspect that could make a differnce is the fact that you mentioned you were a "creative". I think this is an area where KC might have a significant advantage. I have seen that KC ranks high for the creative class.
I just did a quick search and found a couple results that confirm this (although I don't think this is what I had seen):
I take all of these internet lists with a grain of salt. Both of these are from Thrillist, which might be questionable.
But KC does have a good number of creatives. I think there are a relatively high number of advertising agencies, as well as the Hallmark headquarters, which employ a good number of creatives.
The city also supports it's visual arts scene in a much greater way than most peers. It has a thriving art scene that I don't think Cinci can match.
Another interesting point of comparison is the streetcar systems in both cities. In many ways, the two cities' streetcars are similar and considered sister systems. They opened within a few months of each other, using the same streetcar model and covering a similar distance.
However, the results have been drastically different. KC's streetcar has greatly outpaced projections, averaging a daily ridership of over 6,100 (pre-covid), while Cinci's fell short of expectations, average around 1,400 per day. KC's streetcar has spurred a massive amount of development, and is in the process of undergoing a significant expansion. The Cinci streetcar has created a budget deficit and there have been discussions of shutting it down.
Now, I'm not saying you should choose the city based on a (currently) small streetcar system, but it does beg the question of whether or not the streetcars are emblematic of more wide-spread, systemic differences between the cities. I don't really know the answer to that.
I do know that Cinci's streetcar has been a controversial topic from the start, with a large contingent of detractors. KC's streetcar has had it's doubters, but they have mostly been silenced by it's success. I do think KC and Cinci are fairly similar politically - liberal city cores surrounded by more conservative areas. However, I get the impression that Cinci is a little more conservative overall and that is evident in more city politic issues, such as public transit.
I generally agree with most posts on here. I think KC and Cinci are pretty comparable, on the whole.
One aspect that could make a differnce is the fact that you mentioned you were a "creative". I think this is an area where KC might have a significant advantage. I have seen that KC ranks high for the creative class.
I just did a quick search and found a couple results that confirm this (although I don't think this is what I had seen):
I take all of these internet lists with a grain of salt. Both of these are from Thrillist, which might be questionable.
But KC does have a good number of creatives. I think there are a relatively high number of advertising agencies, as well as the Hallmark headquarters, which employ a good number of creatives.
The city also supports it's visual arts scene in a much greater way than most peers. It has a thriving art scene that I don't think Cinci can match.
Wow, really! This surprises me a bit. I thought Cincy would be on the list based on the amazing street murals alone. I also have submitted work for a photo book produced by a small gallery in Cincinnati whose national reach seems to be pretty good, but I guess that probably made me a little biased.
I love those types of lists :P Glad you mentioned all this.
I do know that Cinci's streetcar has been a controversial topic from the start, with a large contingent of detractors. KC's streetcar has had it's doubters, but they have mostly been silenced by it's success. I do think KC and Cinci are fairly similar politically - liberal city cores surrounded by more conservative areas. However, I get the impression that Cinci is a little more conservative overall and that is evident in more city politic issues, such as public transit.
Very good research here! I do think this matters. Thanks again!
But KC does have a good number of creatives. I think there are a relatively high number of advertising agencies, as well as the Hallmark headquarters, which employ a good number of creatives.
The city also supports it's visual arts scene in a much greater way than most peers. It has a thriving art scene that I don't think Cinci can match.
Anecdote and data point in support of these.
The anecdote: A fellow in the class ahead of mine at Harvard was a really talented cartoonist and made the staff of the Harvard Lampoon, the storied college humor magazine (National Lampoon was founded by a bunch of Harvard Lampoon alumni).
When he graduated, he asked me for some recommendations, for he had accepted a job offer from Hallmark.
The Hall family considers itself guardians of good taste — they also own Halls, the city's ritziest department store (and sad to say, a shell of its former self, reduced to one floor in the Crown Center Shops; it opened with four floors in 1973, and at the time, had a branch on the Plaza too).
(All of the Hall boys attended the same private school I graduated from. It merged with its all-girls sibling in 1984.)
The data point: One of Philadelphia's more celebrated monthly rituals is First Friday, a gallery crawl/showroom open house/street fair in Old City, where most of our art galleries are located.
First Friday in Old City dates to 1981.
So does the identical event in the Crossroads Arts District.
The city's experience with the free downtown streetcar has been so positive that new Mayor Quinton Lucas and the head of the Kansas City Area Transportation Authority announced last fall a plan to make public transit free citywide.
(This item's from my weekly column on transportation on Next City.)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
