It's between KC and Cincinnati. Convince me! (Kansas City, St. Louis: crime, homes)

[desirepaths]

All of this is great, thanks!

[WiseOwlSaysHoot]

I have heard that the Crossroads Arts District is one of the largest gallery districts in the country. Not sure if that is true any more as it seems likes some of the galleries/artists have been getting priced out recently.

First Friday gallery openings in the Crossroads are a huge event for the city (although they are not purely about the art any more). They can draw crowds of 30,000+.

The big money philanthropist families in KC do a good job of supporting the arts. Henry Bloch (H&R Block) had a massive art collection and donated extensively to the expansion at the Nelson Atkins (which bears his name). The Kauffman's support the arts and were big donors (along with the Halls) for the new Performing Arts Center downtown, which is one of the finest concerts halls in existence (same acoustic designer as the renowned Disney Hall in LA). It seems like a lot of the wealthy in KC are avid art collectors, which includes supporting new artists.

[Versatile]

Originally Posted by desirepaths

Hi all. My partner and I are from Michigan and we're trying to move out of state ASAP. We were in KC in October but only for a day and didn't get to go through all the neighborhoods. Our lease is up here in a few days so we're going to revisit both Cincinnati and KC on a quick (socially distanced) road trip to hopefully make up our minds. We are simply looking for a LCOL, medium-sized city where we can start our careers. We'll be renting. We've accepted that whichever city we pick, it will be less exciting due to the pandemic. I have done a ton of research via reddit, CD, bestplaces, etc. to the point where there's nothing more I can find out without asking you and visiting in person. We have already started applying for jobs in both cities, FYI, so hopefully we can snag one before moving. We have plenty saved for the move.

How do you think the city will hold up with COVID? Do you expect the job market to be okay (partner is in environmental science, I'm a creative but am just looking for another office job)? How are you guys spending these quarantine days? Anything else you think we should know? Sell us on KC (or not!)

For one thing.Kansas City is not called "The mistake by the lake!

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Versatile

For one thing.Kansas City is not called "The mistake by the lake!

Cincinnati is on the Ohio River, Cleveland is on Lake Erie.....

[Versatile]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Cincinnati is on the Ohio River, Cleveland is on Lake Erie.....

DOH!

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by desirepaths

All of this is great, thanks!

I've been in downtown KC many times. I was in downtown Cincinnati a few years ago near the ballpark and I will tell you the neighborhoods just a couple of blocks from downtown Cincinnati get very sketchy very quickly.

At least that was my impression. Not so much in KC.

[desirepaths]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Cincinnati is on the Ohio River, Cleveland is on Lake Erie.....

Yeah, I thought this referred to Cleveland! Oops

[desirepaths]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

I've been in downtown KC many times. I was in downtown Cincinnati a few years ago near the ballpark and I will tell you the neighborhoods just a couple of blocks from downtown Cincinnati get very sketchy very quickly.

At least that was my impression. Not so much in KC.

Hmm really? We just got back from driving around both cities and I felt like they each got sketchy quickly. Of course the "good parts" of KC spans a larger area but it didn't take long to end up in a neighborhood that was quite run-down. So it's hard to give one city an edge over the other in this regard, IMO!

[desirepaths]

We just got back from visiting last night (12 hour drive home, whew!)

Here are my impressions:
We stayed in the financial district near 10th and Grand Blvd. I'm sure it's because of coronavirus but that are was pretty quiet, not a lot of people hanging out. If I had to base my decision on that experience alone I would say KC is boooooring! But I know it's an unfair assessment at this time.

I think it would be fun to live in an apartment in the Rivermaket area. Crossroads was okay too, and then the neighborhoods near Nelson-Atkins. There are SO MANY LOFTS. I don't want to feel like I'm living in a hotel with no balcony. Ideally we would find a single-family home but the neighborhoods where those were seemed either scarce, not within walking distance to shops, too fancy/expensive, or too unsafe. Need to do more research on that front.

The landscape is not as enjoyable as Cincy's and neither are the parks. I wish there was a nicer, bigger park right downtown or something. We did drive around the WWI museum where people were enjoying the pretty sunset so that was nice.

West Bottoms was STRANGE! Cool, but strange. People are moving there??? It reminded me of an industrial movie set. I would definitely shop there in the future though.

The public transportation seemed great.

I got a wonderful pour over coffee at Thou Mayest and took home some DELICIOUS beans, which always makes me happy. Plus, the bag was $4 cheaper than what I'm used to buying at home!

I liked that it was easy to get around with no crowds or traffic. Parking was easy though it's annoying that there isn't more free parking areas.

My partner got his bbq fix at Jack Stack and I was able to get my (too expensive) vegan fix at Cafe Gratitude. We didn't eat out anywhere else. I was shocked at how many people eat inside restaurants right now. That's not unique to KC though, they were doing the same in Ohio and here at home. It's just so risky to me! Eeck.

Overall, compared to Cincinnati, KC felt quieter, calmer, less diverse, segregated, more spaced out with pockets of people in the "cool" places. We drove past some beautiful houses. We were wondering why a lot of houses are made of stone? I wish I could have witnessed a First Friday or some kind of community event to get a real feel of the city where people are actually out. Seems like in Corona times people just get ice cream at River Market or eat at restaurants. I don't love Missouri or anything surrounding it so I'm a little concerned with that if we actually move there. I feel like we would never venture outside of the city for the whole year or however long we'd be there. But I am intrigued by the fact that lots of lists say KC has a very good job market, and that's most important right now.

[kcmo]

desirepaths, really good assessment.

My biggest beef with KC is that is lacks nearly any kind of big city bustle. It has the bones of a bigger urban city but with almost no traffic, pedestrians and just that nice busy feeling you are supposed to get from a "city".

Now, KC offers just as much or more than Cincinnati as far as amenities, culture etc, but it's just not in your face. It's in pockets like you say and at specific times. You can't just do to downtown KC and follow the people to the action.

Things are TOO EASY in KC. Parking is to easy, there is no traffic anywhere except some slowdowns on some interstates. KC has zero city traffic on surface streets. The bike lanes that exist are barely used, the few parks that exist are just now starting to be used more, but most are still extremely underutilized.

Every time I go to KC, even now when 35,000 live downtown. It just feels dead compared to just about any similar sized city and large portions of the city are completely empty of life or cars at all.

With all the stadiums far from downtown and the airport also giving a terrible first and last impression, it can be extremely hard to sell KC to outsiders, especially since a good portion of the locals try to sell people on suburban crap like Johnson County and Village West which impresses nobody outside the locals. It's like a lot of people never get out of KC.

Now, having said all of that. KC is a wonderful city. Some of these flaws turn into positives once you live there and settle in and get to know the place. The city has a pretty cool vibe once you know how to find it and honestly, once you know KC pretty well, you can find those happening pockets any time you want for any type of entertainment, dining etc. KC lacks the critical mass that most major cities have. Even the urban core is just so spread out with activity you just don't easily see it.

You have noticed one of KC's other major problems which I think is a major reason the core central city feels so dead most of the time. KC lacks large urban neighborhoods surrounding downtown, especially, vibrant, gentrified single family neighborhoods. Some of the main reasons for that is downtown is surrounded by highways, bluffs and rivers. making it nearly an island. Luckily the river market is building out and helping a lot, but it still lacks those strong neighborhoods that go on for miles like you see in other cities, so downtown kc has little interaction with the rest of the city outside of driving there.

And I got to be honest here. KC probably still has the worst urban recreation of any mid to major sized city in the entire country. Despite it being on two rivers etc, the city just does not compare to any other city. It's soooooo far behind in building up a recreational infrastructure. You can still fine places to cycle, or run or play sports, but again, it's not in critical mass like you see in other cities with busy urban bike trails, parks etc.

Okay, I feel like I'm being really hard on the city, but I'm not. I just trying to explain why KC feels like it does. I don't think most locals understand how dead KC feels most of the time. You have to ignore that. It's all there. KC has everything any other large city has. Except that hustle and bustle of feeling like a big city.

I would not say that Cincinnati is the most bustling city, but average and so it's far more active feeling than KC is and all the recreational activity along both sides of the river in Cincinnati helps a lot.