Is Kansas City more of a "Great Plains" city or "Midwest" city? (Joplin: living, agricultural)

[RadioSilence]

I would say both, but leaning Midwest. It's nothing like Wichita or Oklahoma City.

By the way, Tulsa is nothing like those two cities either. That's the green part of Oklahoma.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by RadioSilence

I would say both, but leaning Midwest. It's nothing like Wichita or Oklahoma City.

By the way, Tulsa is nothing like those two cities either. That's the green part of Oklahoma.

KC is at the very far southern edge of the lower Midwest. It is nothing like Wichita or Oklahoma City, but it is also nothing like the eastern half of the Midwest either. Those states tend to be far more wooded with agricultural areas mixed in as well. KC is also located close to the periphery or the transition between the woodlands and tallgrass prairie in addition to being near the edge of the upland South and the Midwest agricultural core region to the north.

[shunketsu]

Thanks for all the responses. Very informative.

[SPonteKC]

Kansas and Nebraska are the original Midwestern states. They were the middle of what was then "the west", as opposed to the northwest (and "Old Northwest"), and southwest. Whatever the Midwest has come to encompass since, Kansas City and Omaha are the quintessence of what the word means.

The idea of the Midwest has ALWAYS included the some of the Great Plains. The Great Lakes, the northwoods and the Mississipi Valley are all places that were later rolled into people's conception of the Midwest because of cultural similarities, or because they actively promoted themselves as being like the Midwest (as in the case of Michigan and Ohio) in order to promote themselves and lure immigrants.

[rwiksell]

Originally Posted by s.davis

Kansas and Nebraska are the original Midwestern states. They were the middle of what was then "the west", as opposed to the northwest (and "Old Northwest"), and southwest. Whatever the Midwest has come to encompass since, Kansas City and Omaha are the quintessence of what the word means.

The idea of the Midwest has ALWAYS included the some of the Great Plains. The Great Lakes, the northwoods and the Mississipi Valley are all places that were later rolled into people's conception of the Midwest because of cultural similarities, or because they actively promoted themselves as being like the Midwest (as in the case of Michigan and Ohio) in order to promote themselves and lure immigrants.

What are you basing this on? That is not how our country was settled, and it's not how the term "Midwest" originated. Here is a snippet from the Wikipedia article about the Midwest:

HISTORY OF THE TERM MIDWEST

The term West was applied to the region in the early years of the country. In 1789, the Northwest Ordinance was enacted, creating the Northwest Territory, which was bounded by the Great Lakes and the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers. Because the Northwest Territory lay between the East Coast and the then-far-West, the states carved out of it were called the Northwest. In the early 19th century, anything west of the Mississippi River was considered the West. The first recorded use of the term Midwestern to refer to a region of the central U.S. occurred in 1886, Midwest appeared in 1894, and Midwesterner in 1916.[4]

Following the settlement of the western prairie, some considered the row of states from North Dakota to Kansas to be part of the Midwest.[62]

The states of the "old Northwest" are now called the "East North Central States" by the United States Census Bureau and the "Great Lakes region" is also a popular term. The states just west of the Mississippi River and the Great Plains states are called the "West North Central States" by the Census Bureau. In some definitions, states such as Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana may be defined under Midwest as well. However, this definition is not in widespread use as those states are generally considered too far west to fall under the term "Midwest" as it is known.[63]

Some entities in the Midwest are still referred to as "Northwest" due to historical reasons, for example, Northwestern University in Illinois.

The most common definition currently used colloquially is that the Midwest proper includes, for the most part, only the East North Central States of the Great Lakes region, specifically Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Minnesota, and in addition Iowa and Missouri are also usually understood to share the same regional characteristics.[64]

[rwiksell]

Originally Posted by s.davis

Kansas and Nebraska are the original Midwestern states. They were the middle of what was then "the west", as opposed to the northwest (and "Old Northwest"), and southwest. Whatever the Midwest has come to encompass since, Kansas City and Omaha are the quintessence of what the word means.

The idea of the Midwest has ALWAYS included the some of the Great Plains. The Great Lakes, the northwoods and the Mississipi Valley are all places that were later rolled into people's conception of the Midwest because of cultural similarities, or because they actively promoted themselves as being like the Midwest (as in the case of Michigan and Ohio) in order to promote themselves and lure immigrants.

Additionally, when the English language puts "mid-" in front of a cardinal direction, it is not meant to describe a place that is "in the middle" of that larger region. Rather it's a place that comes short of that region. Thus, the "midwest" is not in the middle of the west, it's on the way to the west. Just like the "mideast" region (Africa/Asia) is not in the middle of the east, it's on the way to the east (or "far east" / "orient".)

[SPonteKC]

Originally Posted by rwiksell

What are you basing this on? That is not how our country was settled, and it's not how the term "Midwest" originated. Here is a snippet from the Wikipedia article about the Midwest:

HISTORY OF THE TERM MIDWEST

The term West was applied to the region in the early years of the country. In 1789, the Northwest Ordinance was enacted, creating the Northwest Territory, which was bounded by the Great Lakes and the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers. Because the Northwest Territory lay between the East Coast and the then-far-West, the states carved out of it were called the Northwest. In the early 19th century, anything west of the Mississippi River was considered the West. The first recorded use of the term Midwestern to refer to a region of the central U.S. occurred in 1886, Midwest appeared in 1894, and Midwesterner in 1916.[4]

Following the settlement of the western prairie, some considered the row of states from North Dakota to Kansas to be part of the Midwest.[62]

I am basing on extensively third-party etymological, sociological and historical research. James Shortridge, Miller, Vinz, Lass, the Midwestern Studies institutes at various universities, and etymological researchers are all in agreement. The only people who are not seem to be laypersons from the Rust Belt who don't want to be associated with Kansas.


The wikipedia entry you cite is, like many wikipedia entries, just wrong. As is your claim that "mid" means "comes short of". "Mid", quite explicitly in this instance, is merely a contraction of the word "middle". Re-read your wiki entry. And while you're reading it, note that the Northwest territory had a name - the Northwest Territory. The states of the Northwest territory came to be called the "old Northwest" as they entered the union and the country expanded even further west, hence Northwestern University in Chicago.

Later, because the words "middle west" and "midwest" enjoyed a brief era of strong cultural capital associated with a kind of flowering of pastoralism and rural idealism, the idea of the region expanded, often in a quite calculated way.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by s.davis

I am basing on extensively third-party etymological, sociological and historical research. James Shortridge, Miller, Vinz, Lass, the Midwestern Studies institutes at various universities, and etymological researchers are all in agreement. The only people who are not seem to be laypersons from the Rust Belt who don't want to be associated with Kansas.


The wikipedia entry you cite is, like many wikipedia entries, just wrong. As is your claim that "mid" means "comes short of". "Mid", quite explicitly in this instance, is merely a contraction of the word "middle". Re-read your wiki entry. And while you're reading it, note that the Northwest territory had a name - the Northwest Territory. The states of the Northwest territory came to be called the "old Northwest" as they entered the union and the country expanded even further west, hence Northwestern University in Chicago.

Later, because the words "middle west" and "midwest" enjoyed a brief era of strong cultural capital associated with a kind of flowering of pastoralism and rural idealism, the idea of the region expanded, often in a quite calculated way.

The "Midwest" should never include areas along and west of 98 degrees longitude. Those areas have too many items to list that are different from the core area of the region, but have far more commonalities with the western US.

[rwiksell]

Originally Posted by s.davis

I am basing on extensively third-party etymological, sociological and historical research. James Shortridge, Miller, Vinz, Lass, the Midwestern Studies institutes at various universities, and etymological researchers are all in agreement. The only people who are not seem to be laypersons from the Rust Belt who don't want to be associated with Kansas.


The wikipedia entry you cite is, like many wikipedia entries, just wrong. As is your claim that "mid" means "comes short of". "Mid", quite explicitly in this instance, is merely a contraction of the word "middle". Re-read your wiki entry. And while you're reading it, note that the Northwest territory had a name - the Northwest Territory. The states of the Northwest territory came to be called the "old Northwest" as they entered the union and the country expanded even further west, hence Northwestern University in Chicago.

Later, because the words "middle west" and "midwest" enjoyed a brief era of strong cultural capital associated with a kind of flowering of pastoralism and rural idealism, the idea of the region expanded, often in a quite calculated way.

Using big words and listing names of scholars isn't helping you. Citations, man. We need citations.

You give yourself away by claiming your position is supported by the fact that some states don't want to be "associated with Kansas".

Really?

http://www.travelthemidwest.com/

Obviously the word "mid" is short for "middle". But words have multiple meanings. And in this case, when you shorten "middle" and put a dash after it, followed by a cardinal direction, it doesn't mean "in the middle of _____". Take my example of the the "Mid-East" and while you're at it, "Mid-South". The Mid-South is not northern Alabama, it's Kentucky, Arkansas, Southern Missouri. The "shallow south". The "near south". And your point about the "old northwest" isn't actually a point. Sorry.

I actually agree that the great plains states can consider themselves midwestern. Great. My argument is that Kansas and Nebraska are by no means the "original midwestern states". They were later additions.

[SPonteKC]

Originally Posted by rwiksell

Using big words and listing names of scholars isn't helping you. Citations, man. We need citations.

You give yourself away by claiming your position is supported by the fact that some states don't want to be "associated with Kansas".

Really?

Travelthemidwest.com - Official Site of Midwest Tourism Association

Obviously the word "mid" is short for "middle". But words have multiple meanings. And in this case, when you shorten "middle" and put a dash after it, followed by a cardinal direction, it doesn't mean "in the middle of _____". Take my example of the the "Mid-East" and while you're at it, "Mid-South". The Mid-South is not northern Alabama, it's Kentucky, Arkansas, Southern Missouri. The "shallow south". The "near south". And your point about the "old northwest" isn't actually a point. Sorry.

I actually agree that the great plains states can consider themselves midwestern. Great. My argument is that Kansas and Nebraska are by no means the "original midwestern states". They were later additions.

You are incorrect on all counts.
https://books.google.com/books?id=2W...braska&f=false